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Flop a bottom set and...

  
 
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Laeelin
Old 04-11-2005, 04:39 AM     Post subject: Flop a bottom set and... #1 (permalink)  
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Laeelin
You hold: 55

Flop is: 5d Kd 7c

someone goes all in.

folds to you.

call or fold?

I'd call, but just want to make sure it's the right move. (just lost to a higher set doing it)

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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Admerylous
Old 04-11-2005, 05:23 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Call.
The over set will not occur enough to worry that significantly about.

Scariest part about this flop is likely the flush draw. A third of the time they will hit their flush... about a third of the time you will even hit your full house. And some of the time their flush will be cancelled out by your full house.

If there was a raise preflop from the all-iner you may even feel better about this. Perhaps AA, perhaps AK and wanting to take the pot down without allowing flush draws.
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Laeelin
Old 04-11-2005, 05:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Scariest part about this flop is likely the flush draw. A third of the time they will hit their flush...
The good part about that is that you are always winning when they go all in with a flush draw (unless they have so little money that the all in is less than whats already in the pot)

I'd love for everyone with the flush draw to call my all in (if they are 35% to hit the flush then i'm 65% to double up)

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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dsaxton
Old 04-11-2005, 06:30 AM #4 (permalink)  
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The call as fast as possible.
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evman150
Old 04-11-2005, 07:26 AM #5 (permalink)  
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It sucks when you do lose to a bigger set, but folding is a big time loser in this situation.
Light years ahead of the competition.
 
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Pingviini
Old 04-11-2005, 10:35 AM #6 (permalink)  
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CALL. There is no other option. You really have to call because you cannot have reads good/reliable enough.

I remember Ciaffone or Reuben mentioning in their book that he had folded a lower set, once. I was really surprised but he had a really good read on the guy, and he was right.
"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20
 
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poskid_1982
Old 04-11-2005, 12:44 PM #7 (permalink)  
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easiest call in the world...are you waiting on quads?
Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
 
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jmontis
Old 04-11-2005, 01:39 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If it was a live game my chips would be in before his
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Laeelin
Old 04-11-2005, 01:41 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I'll just chalk the last 2 to bad beats then, thanks

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A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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Corey
Old 04-11-2005, 01:46 PM #10 (permalink)  
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is this a ring game or tourney?

well either way it doesnt matter. Almost 10-1 hes got a flush draw or 2 pair or even tptk

call


Corey
 
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Laeelin
Old 04-11-2005, 01:50 PM #11 (permalink)  
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in a ring, in a tourney I wouldnt even think twice about it.

lost my buy-in twice in a (almost) row to that.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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drmcboy
Old 04-11-2005, 05:27 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 easiest call in the world...are you waiting on quads?

LOL
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Zangief
Old 04-11-2005, 05:51 PM #13 (permalink)  
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This is funny because this topic came up twice this weekend at Foxwoods for me. This drunk guy playing at my table was chiding his younger brother about losing his stack when he flopped a set of 2s and he called an all-in bet. I kept wanting to tell him that his brother made the right play ... but decided against teaching the fishy fish (drinking and poker).

The other time this came up was when the flop came 2 9 10 and I flopped middle set with my 99. Eventually, I and another player got all our chips in on the flop. He turned up 10 10! I couldn't believe my luck. The turn was no help, so I yelled, "C'mon - QUAD ME UP!" The dealer flipped over the river card and just gawked at the 9 of spades. Hitting 1-outters makes you forget about previous bad beats.

Of course, I could be wrong about bottom sets. Doyle Brunson cautions against overvaluing a bottom set in Super System. He suggests playing middle set very strongly, but I believe he says not to put it all in the middle with "only" bottom set.

But I'd call this all day.
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Laeelin
Old 04-11-2005, 06:07 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Laeelin
This is the second of the two hands, I cant find the first one =(


Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (10 handed) converter

Hero ($24.65)
CO ($5.35)
Button ($18.85)
SB ($17.60)
BB ($10)
UTG ($45)
UTG+1 ($13.20)
UTG+2 ($19.55)
MP1 ($29.05)
MP2 ($23.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4, 4.
3 folds, MP1 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, Button raises to $1.25, 2 folds, MP1 raises to $2.75, Hero calls $2, Button calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.60) 3, 5, 4 (3 players)
MP1 bets $26.3 (All-In), Hero calls $21.90 (All-In), Button calls $16.10 (All-In).

Turn: ($72.90) K (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($72.90) Q (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: $72.90


Edit: Forgot the showdown

Showdown:

phishin4bass shows Qd Qh.
phishin4bass has Qd Qh 5d Kc Qc: three queens.
Laeelin shows 4c 4s.
Laeelin has 4c 4s 4d Kc Qc: three fours.
masonx13 shows Ad Kd.
masonx13 has Ad Kd 5d Kc Qc: a pair of kings.

and whats worse, I had them both beat at the all in, so If I had looked closer I would have known that I played it right... For some reason I was thinking that the Q came on the flop.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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dalecooper
Old 04-11-2005, 08:22 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeelin
I'd love for everyone with the flush draw to call my all in (if they are 35% to hit the flush then i'm 65% to double up)
It's better than that because of the odds of filling up. A set vs. flush draw on the flop is like 75/25.
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ensign_lee
Old 04-11-2005, 10:00 PM #16 (permalink)  
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There is NO WAY I do not hit the call button here...unless my computer disconnects, and if that happens, I will be pissed...

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dino
Old 04-13-2005, 03:21 PM #17 (permalink)  

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dino
I laid down a set of 10's once in a 5/10 limit game. Here was the situation: A lady had sat down at the table and check folded for about two orbits. She was ahead of me in position. Now I'm dealt TT and she raises in front of me. A few of the guys make the comment 'look she finally got dealt Aces', to which she says, 'yeah, I must have aces if I raise', just a little sarcastically.

The flop comes 3, 10, J. There's an early position bet and she raises. Everything about it screamed to me that she had pocket Jacks so I ditched my set of 10's. Sure enough, that's exactly what she had and I felt like the greatest player in the universe.

I guess the moral of the story if there is one is that a great deal is dependent on your read of the situation. Obviously I was privy to more information in that live game then any of us are in the online games, but reads are reads. If you think you're beat, fold, if you think you have the best hand, raise, if you're unsure, call.

Also, if you ever get into playing Omaha, I'll tell you that a bottom set is just barely worth the paper it's printed on.
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