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A few 10NL hands, vill river shove and 2 barrel

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ProZachNation

10-26-2008, 04:29 AM Post subject: A few 10NL hands, vill river shove and 2 barrel

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

I posted hands and my thought while playing the hands, feel free to comment on anything including my thoughts (like if I am thinking is wrong)

Opp. is donk 32/7 only got like 20 hands on him but ya know the type.
$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG darehkhella ($10.25)
UTG+1 dear_you ($10.00)
MP1 PatLenAz ($14.40)
MP2 samm1700 ($6.25)
CO Hero ($10.00)
BTN Tony0ne ($1.85)
SB paulkart99 ($3.05)
BB catleonet ($20.30)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 8 players) Hero is CO

2 folds, PatLenAz calls $0.10, samm1700 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.60, 3 folds, PatLenAz calls $0.50, samm1700 folds
Standard raise guy can have pretty much any A, anything suited or connected.

Flop:

($1.45, 2 players)
PatLenAz checks, Hero bets $1, PatLenAz calls $1
My standard cont bet but yay I hit, Right now I am thinking he might have caught middle pair, or some kind of SC draw. 66 is kinda a scare but he is raising TT so really only worried about one hand
Turn:

($3.45, 2 players)
PatLenAz checks, Hero bets $3, PatLenAz calls $3
[b]well a straight draw got there, but he just calls. Doubt a set is slow playing here and middle pair would fold by now, maybe middle pair on a draw now?
River:

($9.45, 2 players)
PatLenAz goes all-in $9.80, Hero goes all-in $5.40
wtf 55 calling and hitting? 89 or 66/77 slow playing me? Or could this be a missed draw?
[Results Hidden]

Got about 500 hands on this guy maybe the most I have, he seems like one of the more solid 10nl players, I have him at 15/5 and folding to cont bets 66% of the time. Usually I am not raising QTs here but hey I was feeling frisky and table was pretty tight.
$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($15.45)
UTG+1 ($11.90)
MP ($10.60)
CO ($10.00)
BTN ($13.00)
SB ($9.90)
BB ($3.15)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is UTG

Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, BTN calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop:

($0.95, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BTN calls $0.60
pretty shitty flop to cont bet, I mean what am I really representing? as I said he is pretty decent and maybe 2 minutes earlier on another table I cont bet a flop and he folded so he might just be calling planning to bet turn, so really not sure of what he has but I think he caught some part of it
Turn:

($2.15, 2 players)
Hero bets $1, BTN calls $1
Am I doing it right? Yeah I bet to small here I know that. But if I make it say 1.5 is that a good 2nd barrel?if he caught middle pair or top pair on flop I think he is folding it here
River:

($4.15, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.30, Hero folds
ok I am probably beat peace
Final Pot: $4.15

BTN wins $5.25 ( won +$1.95 )
Hero lost -$2.00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

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10-26-2008, 04:49 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

I check the turn behind for pot control in hand 1. Then he can't shove the river.
Remember, if you call pot on the river after checking the turn, it's the same result as when you pot the turn.

I don't care about giving him free cards, he has 4 outs at most. But getting a weaker hand to put in a river bet probably outweighs the risk of giving free cards. Big pots are for big hands, and one pair is not particularly big. You're behind on the river but your stack is so small you're already commited! You've made your commitment decision on the turn.

I bet 2/3 on the turn because I have a stronger range than he does. Then I three-barrel the river and watch him either fold his flush/straight draw or call with his ace. 2/3 pot is good on the river. He's a tag, he won't call with something retarded like 99 because he would think that you have an ace.

Robb

10-26-2008, 11:12 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1 is 10nl standard. Need a read to fold this, imo. IOPQ, TPTK is the nuts on this dry a board, at least often enough to call this river bet. I might make a 1/2 to 2/3's PSB on the turn, but then I'm still calling the river shove against most villains.

Hand 2 fold pre. If you play it preflop, check/fold flop. If you play it on the flop, check/fold turn. And did I mention fold?

Seriously, hand 2 is FPS on crack. I'm finding that I win more consistently when I play my cards pretty much face up at 10nl about 85% of the time. You don't need to "steal" this pot EVER to win at 10nl. It's not orphaned - you need to pick those up. It's not a blind steal - you should be stealing them. This is a lay it down hand.

Even at 10nl, your UTG open raise means "I'm strong," as do your later bets, and HE DOESN'T FLIPPIN' CARE. There's no value. And he seems to have some. Lay it down.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

10-26-2008, 12:14 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I guarantee you get shown KT, TT, 66, K5, T6 more often than KQ in hand 1 once you see him push

but you have to call because it's very little to you compared to the pot

so you see how villain gets your stack here every time when he flops a set or two pair?

however, if you check turn behind he can only make a pot-sized bet
but when he has a really weak hand like K2 you'll make him fold turn or river

10-26-2008, 12:14 PM

#5 (permalink)

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wellrounded08

10-26-2008, 12:42 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: ...Good Question........Where am I?

Posts: 366

IDK about anything really, but I do know that hand 1 seems an easy fold. There's not enough hands that he just open shoves river with that we beat besides bluffs. I'm mostly worried about 2 pair hands BTW.

Robb

10-26-2008, 01:06 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I guarantee you get shown KT, TT, 66, K5, T6 more often than KQ in hand 1 once you see him push

Obv, 'cuz there are more combos, lol.

You'll get shown KJ, K9, K8s, QT, QJ, JT and T9 and 7x a lot here too. I need a read before I'm folding TPTK. A "strong" line at 10nl isn't a river shove. If he's got a set, more'n half the time he's betting like 1/4 the pot hoping for action.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

martindcx1e

10-26-2008, 03:25 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

1) you managed to get 1/2 your stack in by the river so it's kinda tough to fold now, but i'm not happy about it.

2) not necessary, but i give up on the turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

A "strong" line at 10nl isn't a river shove.

yes, it is

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

Robb

10-26-2008, 04:40 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

For me, the difference between 10nl and 25nl is that at 10nl the villains line up to throw their money away. I think at 10nl without a read this call is +EV, but at 25nl it wouldn't be.

I've just been picking off a lot of these river bluffs lately. I guess someone told the fish that they should fire a PSB on the river if they have no other way to win the hand. But I've seen at least half these river big bets get called down successfully, by me and others, lately. Strong hands seem to get bet about 1/2 pot on the river.

Maybe I've overgeneralized from my recent results, tho.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

Sugar Nut

10-26-2008, 06:57 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: grinderschool.com

Posts: 42

Hand no.1 don't bother with balancing vs donks. just bet big if you hit big and bet small if you whiff (if you decide to cbet at all in the first place, that is)

So: bet more on the flop so you can bet more on the turn. Don't be afraid to valuetown these donkeys for 3 streets with TPTK (which is essentially the nuts vs these guys as long as they just call)

As played I probably close my eyes and klick "call" for these odds. he has you beat here a lot though.

Hand no.2 no matter how tight the table is playing I can't imagine this being +EV preflop. Especially if your not all that confident in your postflop play. Just muck this.

As played I don't even cbet probably. This board hits your opponents range way harder then it hits yours. Once you do cbet and decide to 2barrel you should bet bigger (as you know) and probably commit to firing a 3rd barrel once all the draws miss.

But like I said. c/f from the flop on is probably best.

Sugar Nut

10-26-2008, 10:20 PM

#11 (permalink)

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It depends on whether villain pays you off 3 streets with TPNK

In NL25 I have never gotten 3 streets of value from TPTK
it's usually when the villain puts in a raise that I can guarantee a big pot with TPTK, whether the raise is preflop or postflop

Going through my hand history I see turn and river folds a lot

Robb

10-26-2008, 11:25 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,072

For example (and btw, villain's stats aren't that bad)

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($8.63)
UTG 1 ($9.65)
CO ($10.35)
BTN ($15.69)
Hero ($11.46)
BB ($6.44)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is SB

UTG calls $0.10, UTG 1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40, UTG 1 folds

Flop:

($1.60, 3 players)
Hero bets $1.60, BB calls $1.60, UTG folds

Turn:

($4.80, 2 players)
Hero bets $4.80, BB goes all-in $4.34

River:

($13.94, 2 players)

Final Pot: $13.94
Hero shows:

BB shows:

Hero wins $13.27 ( won $6.37 )
UTG lost -$0.50
UTG 1 lost -$0.10
BB lost -$6.44

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

10-27-2008, 12:44 AM

#13 (permalink)

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you got two streets of value, this doesn't apply

bigspenda73

10-27-2008, 01:04 AM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Robb what is with the bet pot button dude, ever think about your bet-sizes or just slam that bad boy all the time?

10-27-2008, 02:00 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Robb what is with the bet pot button dude, ever think about your bet-sizes or just slam that bad boy all the time?

shit, I always bet pot on drawy boards
is this wrong? I figure I'll get paid off more than on dry flops and my opponent likely has a strong draw so denying him odds is important

Robb

10-27-2008, 02:09 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Robb what is with the bet pot button dude, ever think about your bet-sizes or just slam that bad boy all the time?

What is this "think about your bet-sizes" you speak of?

For strong overs, I bet half them at 2/3's pot, half PSB's. On the turn, I wanted to bet enough to get all the chips in, and the "pot" btn was easiest.

And I was watching the Arsenal match while playin'...

Here's an example of the PSB on the river that doesn't exactly mean strength (with a PSB on flop for spenda

) :

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($10.36)
BTN ($9.45)
SB ($11.77)
Hero ($13.87)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 4 players) Hero is BB

2 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.20

Flop:

($0.60, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, SB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $0.90

Turn:

($3.60, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River:

($3.60, 2 players)
SB bets $3.60, Hero calls $3.60

Final Pot: $10.80
SB shows:

Hero shows:

Hero wins $10.26 ( won $4.86 )
SB lost -$5.40

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

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A few 10NL hands, vill river shove and 2 barrel

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