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FD+Gutter on flop - right to get it in?

  
 
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LuckySlevin
Old 03-27-2010, 11:50 AM     Post subject: FD+Gutter on flop - right to get it in? #1 (permalink)  
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 Am I right to get this in on flop,

Given I had raised, re-raised to rep the T in the first place there was already money in the pot. Does extra 3 outs and perceived FE make this an ok shove?

Thanks

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($8.18)
Hero (UTG) ($3.87)
MP ($3.92)
Button ($4.02)
SB ($7.03)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7, 6
Hero bets $0.06, MP calls $0.06, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.15) 10, 8, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.08, MP raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, MP raises to $1.40, Hero raises to $3.81 (All-In), MP calls $2.41

Turn: ($7.77) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($7.77) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $7.77 | Rake: $0.51
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Dex
Old 03-27-2010, 11:59 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Do you have reads on villain?

Why do you think you have fold equity after villain minreraises you and has already put in over 70bb of his stack?

Do you think being almost 200bb deep with villain makes his range tighter for stacking off, as opposed to being 100bb deep?

Interested to know what you think.
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LuckySlevin
Old 03-27-2010, 12:13 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Yeah I think it does but not sure if I'm making the error of predicting how villian would act from how I would act. I like semibluff raising with draws so thought he could be doing that, if it was me and I had a draw for 130bbs i'd probabally fold.

Although I do take your point about maybe thinking I have more FE than I do. If he has overcard(s) with fd sure he's not folding. So maybe shove wasn't great???
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Dex
Old 03-27-2010, 12:28 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySlevin View Post
Yeah I think it does but not sure if I'm making the error of predicting how villian would act from how I would act. I like semibluff raising with draws so thought he could be doing that, if it was me and I had a draw for 130bbs i'd probabally fold.

Although I do take your point about maybe thinking I have more FE than I do. If he has overcard(s) with fd sure he's not folding. So maybe shove wasn't great???
Do you have any reads on villain then? Fish, tag, notable things they've done? It's hard to judge the hand without that kind of information but I'd be confident there's a better way of playing this hand than stacking off 200bb deep vs someone who seems to like their hand and would probably stack off if we hit one of our draws anyway.

I think if you have any fold equity it's your initial reraise to 80c that carries it. Once villain minreraises, I'd be amazed if he's ever folding.

I'd also note that your 3 outs to the straight are not even to the nut straight, and are going to be worthless when villain has T9. So I think those are tainted.

Reply with some reads on villain if you have them, put a range together and let's see.
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Keith
Old 03-27-2010, 01:26 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Keith will become famous soon enoughKeith will become famous soon enough
 I'm not sure i like raising 67s UTG at 2nl . I think Spenda covered it in his how to beat 6max series at Grinderschool and going for top pair/set making hands at 2->10nl UTG and then start introducing the suited connectors UTG as yu then move up to start balancing your range.

As Dex has pointed out you're not drawing to the nut flush (unless 9h drops and noone has QhJh) , board is paired so you could get beaten by a full house by the river, and you are on the bottom end of a straight draw. If a 9 comes except 9h you could still be in a sticky position.

I'd probably have called the initial raise, bet the turn and tried to get the money in on the river when that 9h fell.
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spoonitnow
Old 03-27-2010, 03:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Put him on a range, decide how he plays it, easy game.
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Arjonius
Old 03-27-2010, 06:25 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Arjonius
Considering the opponent has put 40% of his stack in when he bets it up to 1.40, your fold equity seems negligible. What will he fold to your shove at this point?

And how effectively can you represent a T on the flop anyway. What proportion of your pre-flop betting range consists of hands including one? Some, yes. but T isn't as believable as say an A or K
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