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A Fasciniating Situation.

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Ragnar4

09-14-2008, 02:47 AM Post subject: A Fasciniating Situation.

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

So I was playing poker today. After taking a bit of a hiatus. I've been spending a lot of time watching (shameless plug here) Grinderschool, and mostly watching Spenda's stuff.

Little bit of Back Story. One of the best moves I've ever had pulled on me, that I actually recognized, was by Triptanes. I raised AKo and he called me with T9o from the button. I spike my king, but he also catches an OESD. I do my normal c-Bet, and he raises me just enough to create an awesome situation for him.

A) If I re-raise all in, he has proper odds to call. 2-1 on an an OESD.
B) If I call back, I have to check to him allowing him to see a free card, or semi bluff the turn if he thinks I've given up on the turn.
C) Get great value out of me if he spikes his card by the river.

We chose option A) and he spiked it on the river. I chatted with him at the table, and decided the best way for me to defend against this play, is for me to wait till the turn and pop him back, betting more than the odds of him hitting his draw. So anytime I figure a player is good enough to do this I wait till the turn and usually have to shove, but if the card is safe, I get it AI.

at 5 and 10nl you don't see guys that understand this play.. ever. I thought I was the only one at 5 and 10nl that got it. But tonight I hit another TAG player, and ran into this situation:

He was running over the table with me. Semi-bluff raising his 8 out or more draws, getting it AI like a baller in that situation. But also His top pair top kicker play and set play were exactly alike. So not only did I not have any idea what he had when he made this play, *Set or draw* I was getting ready to leave when I pick up AQs in hearts from UTG.

More information of note, I had seen him 3-bet other players with both PP's and SC's from the button

I bet out, he 3-bets me, I decide that calling would be prudent. Flop comes
Flop comes QJ5 with 2 spades.

I bet out and he raises me from the button. This is where I realize. I'm exactly 50/50 split as to what I think his hand may be. He either has a something like 9t, or a couple of spades, or a set. All 3 are feasible. What's more, since he knows I'm a thinking player and I know he's a thinking player this may even be a bluff.

But the correct play against a set is fold. The correct play against a draw is jam any safe turn. The correct play against a bluff is jam now or jam safe river.

But I honestly had no idea which way my opponent was leaning.

How do I handle this? Fold and wait for a better spot?

Is this what it means for your opponents range to be polarized? Or Balanced?

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

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09-14-2008, 03:45 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

The correct against a bluff is to call... I guess it's technically to jam, but you're expecting a fold out of a bluff so there's no difference between jamming and just simply calling. In fact you get more value if he bluffs on another street and you call him again.

So against a bluff it's a call, against a draw it's a call. If he has a set that just sucks for you.

DaddyDeez

09-14-2008, 06:35 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: missoula, MT

Posts: 113

i fold

I post nonconstructive piss

Clar17y

09-14-2008, 11:24 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: Getting coolered.

Posts: 142

This situation is a tricky one but i rely on a few key HUD stats and make my decision from them mainly.

Firstly if his 3-bet %age is fairly low i will just throw away AQs OOP since low 3bets mean AK,JJ+ against fish. This guy is a thinking TAG so i think we can assume he 3bets with more than just premium cards.
It's a call pre, but i don't think we should flat 100% of the time. If you think he's 3betting light you should think about 4betting him lighter, especially since we are OOP and AQs is good against his 3bet range.

Secondly in a 3-bet pot there isn't much more we could've wanted from the flop. Yes a Qxx 2 heart board would've been better, or flopping the made flush but in reality TPTK is good too.

Like you said in your post you've seen him raise draws
"He was running over the table with me. Semi-bluff raising his 8 out or more draws, getting it AI like a baller in that situation."
So he's capable of raising draws, probably some other stuff like a draw+pair too.

Flat calling imo is bad. If he's drawing it gives him what he wants, we'd probably just check the turn too so he's got a free card. Folding again i think is also bad since he does this with draws and if you keep folding TPTK to a re-raise he's going to be all over your chips.
My idea on the flop might've been a check/raise. It shows more strength than donking and if he calls/raises we know we've got to slow down and appreciate he could have a big hand.

But with the way this was played i probably go ahead and 3bet AI on the flop. Against any normal 25NL fish with no reads though, i find a fold.

Clar

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A Fasciniating Situation.

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