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Exploiting Fish Mistake #2: Passive PF Play

  
 
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bigspenda73
Old 02-10-2009, 11:14 AM     Post subject: Exploiting Fish Mistake #2: Passive PF Play #1 (permalink)  
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 Mistakes which fall into this category:

-limp/calling PF with speculative hands
-limp/folding PF
-calling PF with out implied odds

Some exploitations may seem simple/easy to you however it is best if we list them all. Let's hear about ways to exploit these mistakes!
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kb coolman
Old 02-10-2009, 11:51 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Have a good starting hand selection PF and bet 4xBB+1BB/limper. This allows you to isolate, thereby denying implied odds for speculative hands that only pay off multi-way. This also allows you to clean up all the dead money PF against all the limp/folders.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:06 PM #3 (permalink)  
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isolate a lot
your range will be stronger and you're putting money while you're ahead
then you can also cbet profitably because no matter what, they're either folding a lot or putting in money when they're behind
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hangchiong
Old 02-10-2009, 12:33 PM #4 (permalink)  
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-Good PF Bet Sizing (3-4xbb + 1 limper)

-3bet a good amount

-Opening a wider range-depends on the passiveness(dead money PF)
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Sir Pawnalot
Old 02-10-2009, 12:47 PM #5 (permalink)  
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If the fish are weak (limp-folders), I like to widen my raising rang- especially in late position +sb and bb. If they are limp-callers I value raise more, bluff less.

Some fish like to limp premium hands too. Especially if we isolate too much someone will try to trap us. Punishing limpers is very good when we have a lot of equity or FE, but when they have caught on we can not assume a lot of FE anymore.
A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 02-10-2009, 02:33 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Disappointed in the replies so far

Think people, don't just say the first thing that comes to mind.

Talk to me about ranges, equity, manipulation.

I will unlock these threads later, for the time being think outside the box a little bit, jot down your thoughts, and we'll enter them at a later time.
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bigspenda73
Old 02-11-2009, 09:48 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Now that everyone has had some time to think, perhaps we can come up with some creative replies. Things I am looking for:

-example HH's with reads
-ranges and pokerstove calculations
-pot odds calculations
-anything else that might make someone actually think

Basically I'm looking for some evidence that you sat down for more than a mere 2 minutes and actually put a lot of effort into determining methods of exploitation.
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kb coolman
Old 02-18-2009, 03:00 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I have a tendency to raise hard from the BB with decent, but not great hands, when there are multiple limpers behind.

Here's a perfect example from a recent session that made me think of this thread:

UTG+1 is running 71/0. Yea, you read it right.
MP2 is 24/6. He loves to limp behind from MP.
CO is 62/9
SB is 28/6, and is just completing for the hell of it.

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
8 players

Stacks:
UTG ($36.00)
UTG+1 ($9.00)
MP1 ($23.50)
MP2 ($14.80)
CO ($27.75)
BTN ($28.45)
SB ($33.45)
Hero (BB) ($24.70)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 8 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB calls $0.15

Now, I do not want to see a flop with this hand in a 5 way pot. I'm up against just the kind of players who limp with any Ace/King, so I'm pretty much reduced to set mining with TT by checking behind.

So what do you do to exploit passive pre-flop play? You bet. Hard.


Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds

Final Pot: $4.25

Hero wins $3 ( won +$1 )
SB lost -$0.25
UTG+1 lost -$0.25
MP2 lost -$0.25
CO lost -$0.25
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bigspenda73
Old 02-18-2009, 12:13 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Well that HH is a lot cooler if you have like T7o, your play there is very standard. An aside, what is the lowest PP most would raise in that spot?

For me I'm probably checking 88 but raising 99+, a lot of it depends on the limpers capabilities.
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