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EV Positional starting hand selection

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r8ed

09-01-2005, 05:58 PM Post subject: EV Positional starting hand selection

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Would it be a good strategy to only play +EV hands in position based on this chart?
http://www.pokerroom.com/games/evsta...php?players=10

In fact, would it make even more sense to only play +EV hands above a certain threshold (say .2 or )?

This is a basic strategy but it takes the emotion out of the equation.

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Zangief

09-01-2005, 10:03 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

No.

No one knows how they generated this table. The values look weird:

EV(55, SB) = -0.02
EV(44, SB) = 0.05
EV(33, SB) = -0.10

So 44 should be played from the SB, but 55 and 33 should be folded? That makes no sense.

There are plenty of other posts on here describing what starting hands you should be playing where. If you want, you can make a chart from those.

But I would suggest trying to think more about what you should play from where and why. Doing anything based on a table seems like a bad idea.

r8ed

09-01-2005, 11:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

True.
I missed those ones, but that's where the threshold could come into play. I was trying to make statistics the deciding factor rather than opinion. If you read the Carnegie Mellon link in the starting hands sections, they use statistics to determine hand values. They also point out that some of the justifications Sklansky used for his hand ranking were not backed by real stats.

I'm not saying I was going to use this exact chart, but I was going to find something along those lines. I wrote a program that reads PP skins hand histories realtime and gives some stats so you can make a more informed decision. But starting hand selection was something I wanted to improve upon.

Some stats I calculate:
# of hands better/worse/tied based on hole cards and board
relative strength of hand based on hole cards and board
hand potential based on hole cards and board
pot odds to call a raise

Thread went in a totally different direction, but that's why I was asking.

Thanks.

Zangief

09-02-2005, 12:05 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

I assume we are talking about No Limit, so Sklansky's charts are out the window.

Any chart ignores some of the most important things in making your decision to play a hand: the action in front of you and the players left to act behind you.

Also, No Limit is a game of implied odds. This table shows a lot of hands as -EV that should be +EV if played properly. All pocket pairs should be +EV if you play them properly. (Except 66 if your name is Rilla.)

The table also shows AJs, ATs, and A9s as being largley +EV. In No Limit, it all depends on how you play these.

But seeing these details, I think this table was made from Limit data.

r8ed

09-02-2005, 02:12 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

I love pocket pairs because they are very easy for me to play. If I hit the set, I look to milk it if no trouble on the board. If trouble, I look to take it down. If I miss the set, I only stay in if the board isn't threatening and mostly/all undercards.

Same thing with Axs. Hit the flush, milk it. Miss the flop, look to get out unless pot odds allow me to draw for cheap.

I have the most trouble with AT, KQ, KJ. Usually hit a flop that's not good enough to own but not scary enough to fold. I'm looking to improve that however. I looked back and saw KK and KQ were my biggest losing hands. I have large negative profit. KK ran into well disguised hands like low trips too many times. Plus, lost to AA several times. Not tons of loses but whole stack loses. Just have to learn when to lay down KQ even when I smell bluff.

OopsYouLost

09-02-2005, 12:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Montreal

Posts: 28

Is it just me or as you become a better player, these charts means less and less nothing than bullshit?

Try to build the Gus Hansen starting hands chart!

All-in...
All-in...
All-in on the river!

- Creedence Clearwater Revival

r8ed

09-02-2005, 04:01 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

It's more to help my wife and my friend who are beginners, plus everybody needs a slap in the face every once in a while when they think they are good enough to play suited one gappers.

Gus Hansen code is simple:
If $cards = true
begin
&see_flop_and_play_the_player;
end

&profit;

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EV Positional starting hand selection

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