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Donked again
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09-08-2010, 02:21 PM
Post subject: Double barrelling at the micro's.
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#1 (permalink)
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High Card
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
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I'm very tight (VPIP 9.62, preflop raise 3.37). Currently running at +15bb per 100 at 5NL. I've recently loosened up with hands like AK/AQ when I miss a flop. With my figures I seem to get away with betting 3/4 of the pot and taking it down on the flop, however occasionally I fire a second barrel on the turn when they just call my bet and they usually give it up.
I'm right in assuming this is VERY read dependent though, they seem to be just calling and hoping something will turn up?
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Getting away with betting? Do you even know why you're betting? Put villain on a range and figure out what part of his range will fold to a turn bet. If you're fold equity is null, the board sucks, or villain doesn't have a fold button, don't barrel. It's spew.
PS - you're a passive nit preflop and I'm never giving you action without the nuts.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 994
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tilts me so hard
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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you have to take three things into account: their flop calling range, their turn calling/raising/folding range and the your bet in relation to the pot.
Say you have AQ, the board is K72 3 with no flushdraw, and your opponent called the flop with any broadway Kx and 88-QQ, then there are 48 combos of Kx that he can have, 9 sets and 30 combos of underpairs. Let's say he folds 88-QQ to a second barrel of 2/3 the pot. Can we profitably barrel?
Who want's to answer that. 
Don't get too anal about it. Discount equity when called and implied odds.
OP: find out how to do that. It's in the beginners digest. Then take at least one hand you played and do the same.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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we are betting 2/3 pot so we need him to fold 40% of time ....he is folding 30/87= .34
so no not profitable imo
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Just cuz I fear people aren't necessarily getting this. The shortcut for how much equity you need is to take the bet and divide it though bet+pot. So (2/3)/(1+2/3) = 0.4
If you were to bet half pot it's (1/2)/(1+1/2) = 0.33
So if you could make him fold underpairs to a half pot bet, it would be profitable. - Less marginal than it looks because you can still improve your hand.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Donked again
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High Card
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGrinder
Getting away with betting? Do you even know why you're betting? Put villain on a range and figure out what part of his range will fold to a turn bet. If you're fold equity is null, the board sucks, or villain doesn't have a fold button, don't barrel. It's spew.
PS - you're a passive nit preflop and I'm never giving you action without the nuts.
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I figure I had the best hand preflop otherwise it would have been raised. Seems any pocket preflop or 2 cards over 10 gets raised? I'm betting because (by my logic) I want the pot now as I've missed and betting seems a MUCH better option than checking.
I can't work out range with these guys. Preflop unraised they're in with anything from any position. Unless they get excited and ram, in that case I'm putting them on QQ or better.
My passive rep helps. If I get played back at I can be fairly certain that I'm well behind. Every 20 or so hands I'll preflop raise with any two cards just to add a little uncertainty. Even if I drop it on the flop it's worth it just for that 
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Donked, what if he can have 67s, 78s as well? Is a 2/3 pot barrel profitable then?
Also, you are obviously terrible at poker. That's why you play 5NL and signed up here. GJ on that one. Now less excuses and more studying imo. Ignore the haters.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donked again
I can't work out range with these guys. Preflop unraised they're in with anything from any position. Unless they get excited and ram, in that case I'm putting them on QQ or better.
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You must put them on a range, every street. Whether we bet, raise, fold, call, check, whatever... 99.9% of decisions you make in poker derives from hand ranges, or at least it should minus all the spew and tilt. Wishful thinking will only get you so far. Learn it now while it's on the cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donked again
My passive rep helps. If I get played back at I can be fairly certain that I'm well behind.
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With 5nl fish, it's hard to say. Against anyone paying attention, it's really hard to play bad vs you. Nah mean?
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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jesus christ stop overlimping AQ and learn to play preflop before worrying about balancing your barreling range
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Does it make you angry when people play bad?
Do you want to talk about it?
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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JR9477
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donked again
Every 20 or so hands I'll preflop raise with any two cards just to add a little uncertainty.
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Or maybe you could work on stealing blinds, especially from players like yourself. You could also isolate some limpers with really weak ranges and think about the best way to exploit them. That way you could be doing things that are +ev and not seem so tightpassive.
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(Josh)
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Donked again
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High Card
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Donked, what if he can have 67s, 78s as well? Is a 2/3 pot barrel profitable then?
Also, you are obviously terrible at poker. That's why you play 5NL and signed up here. GJ on that one. Now less excuses and more studying imo. Ignore the haters.
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Oh yes, I'm not very good, I know that. I know I'll get loads of stick too. But that's ok if it makes me think better poker.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Does it make you angry when people play bad?
Do you want to talk about it?
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yes, it does.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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So why do you think that is?
@Donked
You fkn imbecil. Answer the goddamn question!
K72 3 rainbow board
Villain has KT, KJ, KQ, AK, 88-QQ, 67s, 78s. He folds all pairs under a king to a second barrell. If he calls, you loose every time. + they get to rape your dog.
Can you profitably double barrel?
Knowing how to solve that is not optional around here.
[/Gordon Ramsay]
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Johnny Cashout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar
Just cuz I fear people aren't necessarily getting this. The shortcut for how much equity you need is to take the bet and divide it though bet+pot. So (2/3)/(1+2/3) = 0.4
If you were to bet half pot it's (1/2)/(1+1/2) = 0.33
So if you could make him fold underpairs to a half pot bet, it would be profitable. - Less marginal than it looks because you can still improve your hand.
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that really helps clear things up, thanks!
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Current Goal: Breaking 50NL
Wish me luck!!!
Check my profile for my personal poker blog!
Constructive criticism welcome!
-looking for comments as I post my daily battles/struggles through 50NL full ring cash games!
Johnnycashout()com
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