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KingLizard
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06-02-2006, 12:36 AM
Post subject: Don't want to be a "near" fish ... what to do?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 296
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Okay ... PT says I am semi-loose and passive. Stats for May with 6K hands ... 25 / 3 / 1.5. I would like to get to 20 / 5 / 2+. So here's is my dilemma.
I can play fewer hands (getting to VP$IP under 20) but as I raise those hands (getting the PFR% to 5) then fewer players will stay in the hand. OK .. so I play more SCs, PPs, one gappers (in position). But of course I have to raise some of those to get the PFR% up.
So what I'm asking is should I play the fewer hands (I have been playing too many non-suited connectors ... a leak I'm sure) and then just raise them more preflop (in position ... unraised pot ... etc)? And then play accordingly post flop? The reason I haven't is because it just seemed too -EV to just raise for the sake of raising (only to be reraised and then having to fold and losing that bet).
FWIW ... the 6K hands are running about 5PTBB/100.
Thoughts or suggestions on improving the "numbers."
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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So what I'm asking is should I play the fewer hands (I have been playing too many non-suited connectors ... a leak I'm sure) and then just raise them more preflop (in position ... unraised pot ... etc)? And then play accordingly post flop? The reason I haven't is because it just seemed too -EV to just raise for the sake of raising (only to be reraised and then having to fold and losing that bet).
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First of all, what stakes do you play at? If it's lower stakes, you don't need to worry about getting reraised PF (is that what you're talking about? It's unclear)--it almost never happens unless someone has AA/KK.
But anyway, yes, you need to raise your strong hands PF, especially when you have position and/or it's an unraised pot. Not that you should never limp, but yeah, you should get that PF raise # above 5, IMO.
Also, I think Gabe just posted something that applies here--to the effect of, if you are being more selective w/ your starting hands, your PF aggression factor should naturally go up, since you're playing fewer/better hands.
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KingLizard
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 296
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Playing 25NL ... 2-3 tabling. Since starting there in February, I have 18K hands and a 9PTBB/100 so May has been a disappointment.
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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I play low stakes and doing pretty good, but I m also a noob, so my advice FWIW. If you re playing low limits, only raise your big hands and raise them big. Raising small pocket pairs and sc is probably great for deception and to mix things up. But raising them in low stakes ring isnt worth it IMO, people don t pay attention and call way to much. Your C-bet isnt going to work a lot of the time when you miss. As the tables are mostly passive calling stations, look to limp them in big multiway pots, call their weak bets to draw out on them and somebody is going to pay you off. You haven t invested much so you can savely throw them away if you miss.
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Turska
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06-02-2006, 06:24 AM
Post subject: Dont worry
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#5 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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I am SLAP as well I have about the same statistics as you only
i have 14.11. BB/100 right now.
I would not worry too much about 5% PFR at 25 NL. Low stakes
its better for win rate to limp drawing hands (small pps, SCs) and
play them hard when u hit the monster.
Big PF hands you raise big of course like AA,KK,QQ,AKs.
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Krieg1984
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 93
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tom42
I play low stakes and doing pretty good, but I m also a noob, so my advice FWIW. If you re playing low limits, only raise your big hands and raise them big. Raising small pocket pairs and sc is probably great for deception and to mix things up. But raising them in low stakes ring isnt worth it IMO, people don t pay attention and call way to much. Your C-bet isnt going to work a lot of the time when you miss. As the tables are mostly passive calling stations, look to limp them in big multiway pots, call their weak bets to draw out on them and somebody is going to pay you off. You haven t invested much so you can savely throw them away if you miss.
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Cbets can be incredibly profitable at 25nl, as long as you know who you are doing it to.
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Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise  "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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on loose-passive tables you are should be limping ALOT of hands including connectors (suited or otherwise), 1 gappers, Axs, small-medum PPs.
Thats going to bring your aggression rating right down but dont worry about it. You have to adjust your game to the table conditions. If its loose-passive then youll limp more preflop. Just make sure you are making nice big, fat value bets when you hit your straights or w/e.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Krieg1984
Cbets can be incredibly profitable at 25nl, as long as you know who you are doing it to.
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Yes sure, but the problem isn't that it can't work, it's more that the occasion for C-betting doesn't come often enough to make raising SC's profitable. I rarely get it heads up, even when I raise 5BB min pf. C-betting becomes marginal against 2 and EV- against 3 opponents, and a lot of the time a calling station will be present because, well, they call to much. Raising even more pf with SC's to narrow the felt isn't an option IMO.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Position is vital - I play 27% on the button and 13% utg (gives me a 19% overall VP). I also raise almost half the hands I play, to represent strength, to isolate, to steal and to build pots, with position and the actions of players before me absolutely vital in many of these decisions. I will happily raise on the button with a SC because I am happy with people either folding or calling, and because my hand is then disguised.
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KingLizard
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 296
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OK ... it's nice to hear that my "old" strategy of limping SCs and PPs does work. That's what I have been doing. If I hit, then I start firing. If I miss, I get out and seldom chase a hand (unless the odds dictate otherwise).
As an update (and experiment), I focused on being a TAG last night at 25NL. Only playing hands in position, I was raising much more often preflop. If I hit something even close, it was C-bet city. And I played many FEWER hands. The result after only 300 hands was 20 / 5 / 2.6 and a ridiculous win rate of 47PTBB/100. This was 3 tabling (also something new for me ... up from 2). It got to the point on one table, no one would call my PFRs, and if they did, they'd fold to any C-bet.
Thanks to all. I'll keep experimenting and again it's nice to know the old style isn't completely fishy (in spite of PT's rating).
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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play less hands, raise more, limp less, and call raises less.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KingLizard
OK ... it's nice to hear that my "old" strategy of limping SCs and PPs does work. That's what I have been doing. If I hit, then I start firing. If I miss, I get out and seldom chase a hand (unless the odds dictate otherwise).
As an update (and experiment), I focused on being a TAG last night at 25NL. Only playing hands in position, I was raising much more often preflop. If I hit something even close, it was C-bet city. And I played many FEWER hands. The result after only 300 hands was 20 / 5 / 2.6 and a ridiculous win rate of 47PTBB/100. This was 3 tabling (also something new for me ... up from 2). It got to the point on one table, no one would call my PFRs, and if they did, they'd fold to any C-bet.
Thanks to all. I'll keep experimenting and again it's nice to know the old style isn't completely fishy (in spite of PT's rating).
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People at 25NL are not used to aggression and don't know how to counteract it very well. I remember going from 25NL to 100NL (correclty bankrolled) and initially I was very uncomfortable with all preflop and postflop aggression. I was used to seeing tons of flops cheap. Looks like you are on your way to improving your win rate. Keep adding more aggression in late position - getting your preflop raise % to 10 or higher. People that play 20VPIP or less and have a PFR% or 10 or higher tend to do very well at 25NL (and most other limits). Good luck.
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