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!Luck
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02-21-2010, 11:44 PM
Post subject: Don't ask this
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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I waste a lot of people's time with stupid questions, so I am going to try to help everyone out by explaining the type of hands one should almost never post.
This applies to 25NL and below, since that is all i have experience with.
You are dealt KK and you somehow manage to go all in preflop. That is std.
You are 100bb deep in a 3 bet pot (where you 3 bet more than min or called more than a min 3 bet) you have either AA or KK and you end up going all in on a under card board, this is std. EVEN MORE std if there are flush and straight draws.
Don't ask if you should limp reraise AA,KK, because everyone ALWAYS folds. The answer is DON"T DO IT.
You have any type of set on the flop and you end up going all in. 99% of the time this is std. 99% becomes 100% if flop isn't 3 to flush or 789 type board.
As I think more I will try to add more to this list. If anyone body can add more to this feel free to.
!luck
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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no such thing as a stupid question - none of those are particularly stupid anyway.
what's more stupid is to put things into black and white absolutes, using words like NEVER and ALWAYS, 'cause poker never works like that. (oops, isn't that a bit of a paradoxical statement!)
since when was the beginner's circle a place where a beginner could no longer ask beginner's questions?
a better suggestion would be: if you have a question that you suspect might have been asked before, please do use the search function and see if a previous discussion answers your question. this prevents the same discussions from recurring over and over.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I agree with the OP.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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so we encourage auto-pilot decision-making here spoon?
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I agree with the OP.
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+1
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your banner burned here
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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I hadz Kkingz cowboys today and folded to an utg open cos the guy was 0/0 over 17 handz.
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
what's more stupid is to put things into black and white absolutes, using words like NEVER and ALWAYS, 'cause poker never works like that. (oops, isn't that a bit of a paradoxical statement!)
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Only once did he use the word 'always'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
a better suggestion would be: if you have a question that you suspect might have been asked before, please do use the search function and see if a previous discussion answers your question. this prevents the same discussions from recurring over and over.
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good point
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your banner burned here
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
I hadz Kkingz cowboys today and folded to an utg open cos the guy was 0/0 over 17 handz.
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lol sample size
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your banner burned here
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedcake
lol sample size
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I think that was the point ...
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TonyB73
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
so we encourage auto-pilot decision-making here spoon?
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Not at all.
My take on the OP's examples is that the hands that should be posted in the BC are the ones that pose genuinely difficult decisions for a moderately thinking beginner. They key here is THINK ABOUT IT FIRST - if you can work it out fairly easily yourself then there is probably little point posting it.
In pretty much every case at the micros, getting your stack in with AA/KK preflop, or with a set on the flop, should NOT be genuinely difficult decisions for anyone. Even a noob with only half a brain should work that out well before posting any hands for discussion. Just read a couple of basic strategy posts/articles.
Search/lurk/read first.
Everyone runs their KK into AA, or gets it in with a set on the flop against some drooler's gutshot only to see him hit on the river. Posting these hands to ask whether you should fold top set to a re-raise on a dry flop (stove it!) or say something ridiculous like "OMG thats happened to me three times in a row, poker is SO rigged!" is not helpful to anyone.
This by the way is why a lot of the more senior guys around here keep telling you to post your stats, reads and thought processes with EVERY hand too - its partly so that they can get a better picture of the situation and therefore give better advice, but also to encourage posters to self-regulate the stuff that shouldn't be posted in the first place.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugmac
so we encourage auto-pilot decision-making here spoon?
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In all of the spots OP mentioned for microstakes, yes.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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eugmac
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 739
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100BB stacks. A very shallow-thinking player limps UTG, you're UTG+1 with KK. You raise to 5BB, everybody folds, UTG repops to 18BB. He's a regular, and you have a note from a previous session that he limp-reraises AA, and you haven't ever seen him do this with any other hand.
Is this kind of player rare? Certainly! But if you were so lucky as to run into him, should you adjust so that you're prepared to release KK preflop? If you've logged enough hands with him to consider "limp/rr with only AA" to be a SOLID read, then of course we have to fold don't we?
The key is to know that this is 1% of cases (even probably less online), and that routinely you're not hesitating to get it in PF with KK. I get the point from all of you that you're just trying to hammer home the correct play for some situations that should become routine, and not to let some cooler/bad beat make you believe otherwise.
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DJJunkPauds
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 301
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Semi-grunching.
This thread would make at least a little sense, if it were over in SHNL, or somewhere like that, but this is the Beginner's Circle. If one is irritated by elementary poker questions, this sub-forum is probably the last place one should be.
I don't know what level of skill OP, or others have attained in poker, but I imagine they probably didn't get there through having much more experienced players label their questions as stupid. That's certainly true in my case; for poker, as well as in other fields.
I think it's appropriate to ask that people use the search feature, and it would be useful to have a "Frequently Asked Spots" sticky, but I think the tone here is unhelpful, and in my opinion counter productive.
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iloveaces
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
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It's a hard one DJ. On one hand I enjoy how the discussions here seem more intelligent than other forums, on the other I hate that a lot of things go over my head. I agree with you in part. But that's coming from someone who still has a lot of stupid questions left to ask.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AdamThePirate
Iloveaces, your signature is completely redundant.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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The point the OP is trying to make isn't a negative one. He's trying to help clean up/prevent some of the clutter that has been fairly rampant in the BC as of late. I've been here for a little over a year and I see questions like the one OP posted all the time (I've probably asked some too obviously) and it gets kind of old reading them and giving the same answers every time.
I think a 'Standard Spots' sticky or something like that would do a lot to get these kind of posts out of the way like DJP suggested. We could have the sticky just link to HH's where AA/KK went all in PF, or someone got a set all in on a monotone or 3 straight board or whatever.
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DJJunkPauds
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranger7070
The point the OP is trying to make isn't a negative one. He's trying to help clean up/prevent some of the clutter that has been fairly rampant in the BC as of late. I've been here for a little over a year and I see questions like the one OP posted all the time (I've probably asked some too obviously) and it gets kind of old reading them and giving the same answers every time.
I think a 'Standard Spots' sticky or something like that would do a lot to get these kind of posts out of the way like DJP suggested. We could have the sticky just link to HH's where AA/KK went all in PF, or someone got a set all in on a monotone or 3 straight board or whatever.
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I appreciate he's (she?) trying to do a good thing, it's that the premise that some questions are stupid, or that they're too elementary to be asked in a beginners forum, is a wrong one, I think.
If the answer to a basic question isn't anywhere else, there's no problem with asking it here. I think the problem is that it's not answered anywhere else. I propose that it's fixed with a "Standard Spots" sticky. Who's in charge of doing that?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Spoon or another mod would be in charge of that.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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i take issue with OP's statement about never limping AA preflop when a aggrodonk is at the table. When they inevitable raise i 3-bet and they usually call or shove. I usually need someone that's raising over 60 percent of hands at the table before i will make it a regular part of my game for that segment. The majority of the time though it is a bad play a micro nl. plaing a pair OP with 4 limpers behind you can be difficult.
I get flush's point though. Do we really need threads asking if it's ok to get all in with KK. It could be worse though atleast we don't have the entire first page full of post asking how to play AA preflop. Which was the case at a forum i use to visit.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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I don't see why you would take issue with the limping AA. It's a generalized statement, but it holds true for about 99% of all tables at the micros. You said if for yourself that you won't make it a 'regular part of your game for that segment' unless theres a guy jacking up the pot almost every hand. I know we all say that generalizations in poker are bad, but there are exceptions to every rule and all the 'beginner questions' OP posted are such.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJunkPauds
Semi-grunching.
This thread would make at least a little sense, if it were over in SHNL, or somewhere like that, but this is the Beginner's Circle. If one is irritated by elementary poker questions, this sub-forum is probably the last place one should be.
I don't know what level of skill OP, or others have attained in poker, but I imagine they probably didn't get there through having much more experienced players label their questions as stupid. That's certainly true in my case; for poker, as well as in other fields.
I think it's appropriate to ask that people use the search feature, and it would be useful to have a "Frequently Asked Spots" sticky, but I think the tone here is unhelpful, and in my opinion counter productive.
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Some answers should be self evident. Nobody should have ask if they should stack off with KK before the flop or if they should fold JT when a 50xbb player raises of them infront of them. Ofcourse i'm not gonna bash anyone for asking such questions i just think you should know the answers before you even sit down at your first table.
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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We can also something like I moved up and im running 10BI below EV should I keep playing even though my BR is now 10BI for current level. The answer to this IS ALWAYS. MOVE DOWN NOW!!!!
!luck
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranger7070
I don't see why you would take issue with the limping AA. It's a generalized statement, but it holds true for about 99% of all tables at the micros. You said if for yourself that you won't make it a 'regular part of your game for that segment' unless theres a guy jacking up the pot almost every hand. I know we all say that generalizations in poker are bad, but there are exceptions to every rule and all the 'beginner questions' OP posted are such.
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Well it's not like i'm terrible insulted or anything.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Then I don't see the point of your initial response lolz
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Dragon Slayer
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
I hadz Kkingz cowboys today and folded to an utg open cos the guy was 0/0 over 17 handz.
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Standard imo
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Arjonius
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
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Beginners are going to ask beginner questions. It's inevitable. The problem is that it's generally easier to ask something that others have already asked than to look around or even just to do a search. Suggesting people do one or both is great, but realistically, the level of compliance is never going to be or even approach complete.
If there's a good solution out there, I'd love to see it, and to see it implemented. But telling people posting certain topics is wrong seems more like an act of annoyance or frustration than it is a realistic suggestion for improvement. I wish it were so easy.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
I hadz Kkingz cowboys today and folded to an utg open cos the guy was 0/0 over 17 handz.
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yeah, but what country was he from?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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{Locked}
Getting a bit off topic and I don't think much more value can be had from this.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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