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nUFamn
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08-29-2007, 01:21 PM
Post subject: Donking my Money Away
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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The last few days have been hell whenever I go into a ring game. I think the majority of it is variance, and I will be scanning my PT to find some HH to throw up later on (but I'm getting ready to run to class now). It just seems like any overpair I get, someone's got a bigger one. Any time I get Aces, someone will call my large PFR in order to try to catch a straight, then I'll think "No, they wouldn't call with 5s6s a 4xBB pfr", push with Aces on the 478r board, and get stacked by the straight (only happened once, but i've lost with overpairs a couple of times).
Granted, without HH's it's hard to say for sure, but do these situations sound like I'm making mistakes or just getting screwed by variance? If it's variance, then I'll just have to weather it, but if it seems like I might be making poor decisions I REALLY need to find HH describing what's been going on.
I've dropped about half my bankroll now, and have money to put more in but I really would rather buckle down and weather the storm than do that, so I suppose I need to avoid 10NL all together and stick to SnGs. *sigh*
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Just move down? What stakes are you playing, btw?
Shit hit the send button accidentally.
For what it's worth, I had two big downswings when I started back playing earlier this year. One was for 8 buyins and the other was for 10.
They were both at 10nl.
The closest I've come to that post-10nl is like 3.5. It really sucks but if you've lost half your bankroll you need to move down and rebuild.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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nUFamn
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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Well, I've got a small bankroll to start with, and I'm playing 10NL right now. I played a bit of 2nl at UB earlier, but that's almost harder because it's even more of a cluster$#@% at 2nl. I've got around $100 between the two accounts now, and I'm thinking I might try to boost it by playing $2 SnG's. Or, I could just read up, take a couple days off to get my head totally straight, and then take another shot at 10NL under-rolled.
I played breakeven 25NL at UB for a while, but I'm way under-rolled for that right now.
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"Let me tell ya how the internet screwed up poker, okay. When a guy sucks out on the river, on the internet, you cannot take the guy out in the parking lot and you cannot break his fuckin' knees." (Deuce Fairbanks)
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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Taking shots with <10 buy-ins is just bad BR management.
If you can beat the lower games, continue to beat them until you can roll yourself for the bigger ones. If you must mix it up, play a different type of game within your roll. Play a tourney, SNG, or a different form of poker.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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If you only have $100 left I would move it over to Stars and play $5NL.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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read the bankroll management links and articles here. Then stop playing with only ten buy-ins, drop a level and cash-in, then move back up.
You say that the lower limit is even crazier?!? if you can't beat $2NL you should probably figure out why before hitting $10NL.
Also, some comments with the example you gave. As well as 56s, you'll find yourself up against 44, 77, 88 often enough here to be a little careful, maybe 3/4 pot-bet the flop rather than slam all-in. Then fold if you get re-raised. Not sure what exactly you stand to gain by pushing this flop, but you deserve to get stacked - risking $10 to win 80cents without holding the absolute dogs bollocks seems a little silly to me... And just to completely clarify, you didn't call villain's all-in here did you?
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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I just re-read what I wrote, hope that didn't come across too harsh! post some hand histories and get some feedback is my other advice, there are people here with a vast amount of knowledge. I've been tapping into their brains recently and it's helping me loads. Good luck!
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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$2NL is gambooooool!
Nobody can beat that level.
Heck, when I'm tilted, I go to 2NL and gambooooooooool!
With only $100, I;d say play $5SnG's until you triple that up.
Then play 10NL until you double up.
Then play 20NL until you double up.
You get the picture.
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nUFamn
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 106
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No, lol, not harsh... and if anything can be interpreted as harsh, it's probably good that it is. I need to be smacked and told to quit donking my money away... I'm a better player than I've been playing lately, just being stupid. I'm taking a few days off to regain composure and then take a stab at lots of SnGs.
But yea from my experience, Jack's right about 2NL... I'm sure that given enough time, playing good ABC poker would dominate it, but I always feel weird playing it, because I'm used to playing tournys, 5/10 online, or 10/20 live... so its just way-lower stakes than I'm used to. Anyways, thanks for the tips!
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"Let me tell ya how the internet screwed up poker, okay. When a guy sucks out on the river, on the internet, you cannot take the guy out in the parking lot and you cannot break his fuckin' knees." (Deuce Fairbanks)
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Marv1105
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 18
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bump
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marv1105
bump
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lol
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marv1105
bump
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lol |
I literally loled too. One of the best bumps ever.
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nickthefool
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: here
Posts: 338
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2NL on stars is definitely beatable - i donked off most of my roll earlier this year and had to grind out at that level and had a pretty good win rate. Once you adjust to how people play then it was pretty profitable, considering the stakes.
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The poker gods love me really, they are just testing my faith !
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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if $2NL on stars is anything like $5NL on party, then it is infinitely beatable. Stacks just searching for a good home... and orphan pots all over the place. Bet sizing, pot odds and the ability to laydown should be all you need.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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2NL is definatly beatable. You should be able to beat it for AT LEAST 8-10BB/100 just by learning when to fold and getting the money in otherwise. It certainly takes some practice/ study to be able to beat that level but then it does at all levels. Some of the posts in this thread have come dangerously close to suggesting that low stakes are easier than higher stakes which as will all know is rediculous...
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Percival
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 47
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Here are a couple of tips to help you though this tough time...
1. When you are at a ring game, buy in for 25% - 35% of the max buy in. At a $10 max, buy in for anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50. Until you understand, and can take advantage of deep stack play, all you are doing is risking more by buying in at higher amounts. This won't keep your aces from getting busted, but will force you to play better hands pre-flop.
2. Get away from ring games, and stick with sng's. You gain more experience with less risk this way. Plus at the lower levels, sng's are easy. Play only premium hands until the blinds reach 100 or more, then play aggressively.
Here's why sng's over ring at lower levels. Let's look at your busted aces. In a ring game half the table or more may be donks that won't fold to a 4xbb PFR. When your donk busts you with a 4 7, momentum starts building. Half of the table is encouraged by this, and will start playing the same hands, the other half will see fish, and begin calling to win a big pot. Of course you can make your PFR's even bigger, but then you win more blinds and less pots which isn't profitable. In a sng, those donks will go out and be gone, with no more donks taking their places.
Hope this helps!
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"If I am in the impossible business, and I am, then I want to go beyond the impossible." David Copperfield
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Percival
1. When you are at a ring game, buy in for 25% - 35% of the max buy in. At a $10 max, buy in for anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50. Until you understand, and can take advantage of deep stack play, all you are doing is risking more by buying in at higher amounts.
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You can't learn the right way to play with 100bb's if you don't attempt it...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Percival
When your donk busts you with a 4 7, momentum starts building. Half of the table is encouraged by this, and will start playing the same hands, the other half will see fish, and begin calling to win a big pot.
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sorry but this doesn't happen.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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interesting thoughts percival. Suffice to say they sound crack-induced...
anyway, my add to the mix.
Buying in short - to a point. If you're not totally comfortable or rolled for the stakes then I suggest buying in with 65-70% (i.e. $3.50ish for $5NL). Less than this you can't play real poker - 70% gives you enough room to actually do so (just)
As for the theory about about exponential-crazy-play-growth. Well, I've never seen it - but even if it happened, that would be a good thing for a solid player!
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