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Donkey folds a hand?

  
 
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Anosmic
Old 07-09-2006, 06:06 AM     Post subject: Donkey folds a hand? #1 (permalink)  
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Okay. How bad was this? Pre and post flop?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $25NL (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($4.85)
MP3 ($20.30)
CO ($25.70)
Button ($5.85)
SB ($51.20)
BB ($33.20)
UTG ($18.05)
UTG+1 ($24.55)
UTG+2 ($29.35)
Hero ($21.72)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, Q. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
3 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, CO raises to $3, 3 folds, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) Q, 3, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, CO raises to $7, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $16.35
Blah blah Op Blah blah

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Setzy
Old 07-09-2006, 06:42 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I'll take a stab at this one. Feel free to disagree.

It's $25nl, so you have to put a real premium on what you call re-raises with here. This guy has a full stack, and you have pretty close to one. You raise it up with your AQ, which is fine...then he reraises you in position. A bell should go off here. *DING*! You got reraised, what I guess is a pretty standard reraise. Me myself, I'm putting this on QQ+; so I'm going to say this guy has either QQ, KK, AKs, AKo (maaaaaaybe), or AA..maybe rarely a JJ. Myself, I'd toss it more often than not...but let's try to play it out the best we can since there is a flop to be seen.

Now here comes a flop. You hit your Q. Definitely sweet. The pot sits at $6.35. He has position on you also. Here's where I think one of those 20% of the time top pair checks I was reading about earlier comes good into play. You have a backdoor flush, and that good ol TPTK. I would check and see what he bets here. We are definitely wary of overpairs, and I think checking disguises OUR hand better.

When he bets (we'll assume he bets after his reraise), then you could pull out a check-raise and see where he really does stand. If he pushes over your reraise, I'd say be done with it. It's not a bad fold...but I definitely wouldn't lead out for less than half the pot. He established dominance preflop. Think of it like a conversation; "I raise you, so my hand is badass, fold now!" Naturally on the flop (c-bet or otherwise), he wants to continue the message; and when you bet out a smallish amount he is going to come back with another "FOLD!" message (the raise).

That's my Setzified analysis. Take it as you will.
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buddha
Old 07-09-2006, 06:45 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I might be wrong here but i don't think you played it bad pre-flop, and on the flop I don't think 1/2 pot bet on the flop is to bad here, because he could have jacks and maybe tens so betting tells him what you have and defends from a c-bet from something like ak or jj,IMO, so his re-raise says that he probably has an overpair think you did the right thing and folded. i believe you played it good. And i would like to see what other people say bout it as well.
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Jimmy Mac
Old 07-09-2006, 07:27 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I'd fold to the pre flop raise assuming the opponent has a tight range here.. AQ plays like shit against a reraise, plus he has position on you.
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grnydrowave2
Old 07-09-2006, 07:42 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
I'd fold to the pre flop raise assuming the opponent has a tight range here.. AQ plays like shit against a reraise, plus he has position on you.
Agreed. I don't see the point in calling the raise if TPTK is no good.
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givememyleg
Old 07-09-2006, 08:19 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 If you're gonna call preflop, which I don't necessarily disagree with depending on villian, I would rather check here rather than lead out. See a turn card.

I probably just dump this without position though.

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Anosmic
Old 07-09-2006, 08:32 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Didn't know much about the opp, too early.

Was worried about just folding to any aggression; it would mean that I only had 2 hands I could really call a pf re-raise with which would be fatal.

Anyway, I was worried about AA, KK (QQ outside possibility).

Villain showed 97o and I could feel myself going on tilt... so I left the table after 7 hands... anyway won't be playing for a few days, I'm off to a little cabin on a tiny island with no electricity or running water... I hope I come back calm.

Cheers guys. Helped a lot.
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Lukie
Old 07-09-2006, 02:07 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 If that tilts you, you need to establish more emotional control over yourself. Standard fold preflop, and if villain had such a wide range preflop that warranted a call, I'm likely felting this, trying to figure out a way to get max value out of worse hands. That might be spew too, who knows...
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Vrax
Old 07-09-2006, 10:17 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
When he bets (we'll assume he bets after his reraise), then you could pull out a check-raise and see where he really does stand.
Checkraising potsized bet in re-raised pot is 50BB commitment and reps much better hand than tptk, it's more like QQ, not AQ on that kind of board. Putting half stack just "for info" only to fold it 80% of the time is huge mistake.

AQ against tight reraiser becomes junk, muck it preflop against standard player if he shows 46s, "vnb" and move on.
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biondino
Old 07-10-2006, 05:47 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I hope you typed "wp" and noted that he was prone to both playing tricksy AND showing. He did it very well, using position and (presumably) a read that you're verging on the tight weak. But by showing he has given you vital info, and combine that with PT stats, you should get a decent picture of this guy's range.

If he IS a good lagg, of course, I'd only play back at him when you're sure you can beat him, and steer clear of him the rest of the time. He may raise a lot of junk but you can be sure that he ain't throwing away stacks with junk unless it hits that invisible two pair or three-gapped straight or whatever.
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