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gosam
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09-12-2008, 09:26 PM
Post subject: Donked into with JJ NL20.
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 76
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iPoker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (10 handed) - iPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($59.30)
UTG+1 ($17.23)
UTG+2 ($20)
Hero (MP1) ($20.62)
MP2 ($19.60)
MP3 ($20)
CO ($2.80)
Button ($8.91)
SB ($9.06)
BB ($3.10)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J , J
UTG calls $0.20, UTG+1 calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises $1, 7 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.80
Flop: ($2.50) 5, 6, 3 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1.60, Hero ???
Villain is totally unknown. I'm split between raising to decide the hand here and calling down for pot control.
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he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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couldnt he also have 77 88 99 TT?
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw
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Pre-flop reads? Without any, couldn't his raise be wider than that? Two pair, some kind of combo draw that includes 78s & 89s, a set that doesn't think you'll fold after raising two limpers from MP AND doesn't want to give a free card on that kind of board or even AK/AQ/AT/KQs kind of hands that see this as a semi-bluff?
If I had all the moniez back that I had lost playing good (but not great) overpairs too far I'd have, well, more moniez... 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw
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Pre-flop reads? Without any, couldn't his raise be wider than that? Two pair, some kind of combo draw that includes 78s & 89s, a set that doesn't think you'll fold after raising two limpers from MP AND doesn't want to give a free card on that kind of board or even AK/AQ/AT/KQs kind of hands that see this as a semi-bluff?
If I had all the moniez back that I had lost playing good (but not great) overpairs too far I'd have, well, more moniez... :shock: |
I'm saying you should call and see what he does on the turn. If he checks the turn on a non-flush card you can fire at it.
Notice I didn't give HIS range, I gave what he thinks of you. So he couldn't be expecting you to necessarily have an overpair so his donk is weak rather than strong. If he is strong he's more likely to fire on the turn and fire a healthy bet. If he's weak he might bet weakly on the turn or check.
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,448
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calling here is standard. Raising doesnt accomplish anythign against most of his range.
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I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
calling here is standard. Raising doesnt accomplish anythign against most of his range.
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yes
DUCY? and yes those overpairs are in his range as well as 34834 things we beat. Since he's an unknown, raising accomplishes very little.
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bigstock2001
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JESUP
Posts: 142
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I think here you have know choice to raise. You don't get any info by calling, You won't even know if a set is possible without a raise, IMO
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gosam
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 76
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Hero calls 1.60$.
Turn card 9
Villain donks for 1.60$ again.
What now?
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bigstock2001
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JESUP
Posts: 142
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I would still raise again to 3.80. than if he is still there on the river i would call any suttle bet i would only fold to a big bet or shove.
Don
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigstock2001
I think here you have know choice to raise. You don't get any info by calling, You won't even know if a set is possible without a raise, IMO
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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bigstock2001
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JESUP
Posts: 142
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ok I am going to ask a question, if we have no read on villon and he fires a bet on the flop with a weak flop like that how does raising not give you any information. If you just call i would think you did not learn anything about this person. Right now the pot is small enough to where if we realize we are beat we can let go of it. But if we call the 1.60 than the 9 comes out and he bets another 1.60 do we fold even though now the pot odds is alot higher with our over pair. I would say a raise on the flop and another raise on the turn would push him out if he is on a flush draw. but keeping the pot with good pots odds just encourages his draw. Not to mention if your going to play a draw you should bet it. I think ak spades is a really strong possibility with this hand. Not to mention i think a tight aggressive stlye is perfect for this spot. not a passive post flop style.
Don
Please if I am wrong educate me.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Raising for info. is really bad in almost all cases. What kind of hands do you think continue and which ones fold? By playing passively we create a much wider range for villain allowing us to gain the maximum by either betting on later streets when he slows down or by calling him down on none scary turn/river combos.
OP - call on turn again
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ponyboy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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He also just bet $1.60 into a $5+ pot giving you wicked odds to call. This can sometimes be a trap however.
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Call the turn, if he bets the river this weakly again you can call and most of the time you'd be beat, but you'd also be getting wicked pot odds. This line would keep silly hands like pair of tens around.
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