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Revolver123
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02-28-2009, 04:47 AM
Post subject: donk bet help
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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Is this a set line scared of a flush draw?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($16)
BB ($5.05)
UTG ($13.75)
UTG+1 ($10)
MP1 ($5.85)
MP2 ($10)
Hero (CO) ($14.80)
Button ($6.35)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , A
4 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.90) Q , 6, 2 (2 players)
SB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40
Turn: ($1.70) 10 (2 players)
SB bets $1.20, Hero folds
Total pot: $1.70 | Rake: $0.05
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Hero has 4 clean outs to maybe winning 50% of the time by the river.
Did you really think you could get 8.40 out of your opponent if you caught your ace or king? (4 outs 10.5-1 40 cents becomes 4.20, top pair only seems to be good 50% of the time so multiply 4.20 X 2)
Also where are villans stats? Why are you playing 10nl without talking about stats at every turn? I'm totally peeling here if opp has aggr of 5ish. Snapfolding if he's got an aggr of 1 or less.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Yea definitely start posting stats on villain if you want decent analysis. I might peel the flop here, but do you really want to see the A or K of spades hit? What is your play when you do hit it? Call, raise?
Plan your hands out from now, trust me, think about what cards will be good for your hand AND your opponents range and always be adjusting your opponents range after every street.
FWIW a set COULD be played this way, but since it's 10nl I'm more inclined to believe that opponents slowplay their sets much more often then betting right out.
I could see two pair doing this, Q6, Q2, (I don't think he would call 62 PF), bigger Q's could play it like this (QT, QJ, KQ, AQ), middle pocket pairs could play it like this (88-JJ)
Obviously this range isn't the most accurate, but I think its a decent starting point.
Just fold the flop next time.
Also in addition to villains stats, post a range of what you think the villain could have.
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youngunpoker
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 29
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Not exactly sure why you would call his bet on the flop here. But say a K or A hits the flop and you re-raise his bet, what if he re-raises your bet. Would you still think you hand is best? If it is the K or A of spades what then. By calling this flop you are putting your money where it does not belong, If the A or K had hit you couldv'e lost a lot more money than you did. Post villian stats as previously stated by others. But was a definate fold after the flop here
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inƒamous
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 62
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I think it is a toss up in this hand. But in general I find a lot of players will donk bet into me as in this hand. A small weak probing bet to find out how strong my hand really is. Which means you are risking more here but you can let them know by folding or raising them. I find in other hands that players have top pair weak kicker or a smaller pocket pair. And they are probing you. I have had great success when raising these annoying bets when my hand is not a monster or simply ace high as you had here. Depending on how they react through P.O.E. (process of elimination) to narrow his hand range more. You can chose how the rest of the hand will play out or you can shut down.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,071
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The small flop donk bet is either a medium strength hand or very strong. You've gotta watch the guy and note what he typically does. Get a read on his typical play. But the majority of the time, this "weak" bet means he has connected with the flop, but not very hard. Flush draws, 2nd pair, etc.
What's your line here with AsQd?
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Raise as a bluff
if he has a hand he only thinks is worth $.40 then make it $1.70
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,071
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
What's your line here with AsQd?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Raise as a bluff
if he has a hand he only thinks is worth $.40 then make it $1.70
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This is a good board for a raise, because your range is strong. Generally, I'm with IOPQ here and think he's weak, not strong. And you have lots of cards that can help you on the turn.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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The donk bet is so named because it's usually a level 0 play. I think QT or QJ shows up here a lot. We really have no reason to continue.
I don't want to raise flop as a bluff because if we get flat called then we will be lost on the turn. We will get flat called by a lot of hands that bet weak on that flop. If they have a flush draw, they're probably not letting go of it. If it's a Q, they're not letting go of it. Even if it's a middle pocket pair they're probably peeling. With the flush draw out there and not much else, I don't think we have enough fold equity to make any sort of profitable move.
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dev
The donk bet is so named because it's usually a level 0 play. I think QT or QJ shows up here a lot. We really have no reason to continue.
I don't want to raise flop as a bluff because if we get flat called then we will be lost on the turn. We will get flat called by a lot of hands that bet weak on that flop. If they have a flush draw, they're probably not letting go of it. If it's a Q, they're not letting go of it. Even if it's a middle pocket pair they're probably peeling. With the flush draw out there and not much else, I don't think we have enough fold equity to make any sort of profitable move.
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Well, the bet is so small that it leads me to believe it's air. If you wanted value out of a flush draw, you'd have to bet at least .70 here with QJ, otherwise you're giving close to immediate odds to peel.
Plus, I don't know how often this happens, but sometimes a six will lead out and then be scared off with your raise. I just see donkhalfpot/fold so often that I personally feel it's exploitable.
This is a board that might be good to raise a cbet with air as well it's not that connected.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,071
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I just see donkhalfpot/fold so often that I personally feel it's exploitable.
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I agree. But I don't think folding's a bad idea. And I only like barreling with a decent read.
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thizzSantaCruz
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 894
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raise flop. he rarely has anything and you have a lot of outs and good cards to barrel on the turn.
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Flopping quads and boats like its my job
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I would say folding is exploitable, but fish can't exploit worth shit so it's fine. Just have a plan against the guy. Some people don't fucking fold so it's pointless to do anything but valuetown them.
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