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Done w/ 5nl - Some thoughts/observations

  
 
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Vinland
Old 11-13-2009, 03:41 PM     Post subject: Done w/ 5nl - Some thoughts/observations #1 (permalink)  
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 Due to a timely heater I am on, I have reached my BR for 10nl and will stop playing 5nl.

As I did before when I finished 2nl, I posted some thoughts and observations on what I felt I saw and some changes that I made. This is for players who are in 5nl or 2nl. These are my thoughts....some may disagree with them but thats cool, its all open for discussion. Hopefully there are some tidbits here for players that are in the same boat I was in the last while.

-Typical passive player, instead of running 30/3/1.5 like 2nl now they run 20/3/1.5 (just slightly weaker/nittier but not much more)

-Lots of regs running >10/2/3 Some as low as 5/2/2 just very nitty.

-Ran into players who would limp AA even from UTG just to be trappy

-Learn to play large pots w/ TPTK or even middle pair against the maniacs. Its tough b/c
“I” would never go into a big pot with worse than TPTK but “they” will.

-Learn to size your value bets….I hear a lot of talk about “pot, pot, shove” and sure against some you can, but when the board isn’t too threatening and the villain is weak, you cant always pot the flop. If the flop is $.70, you may need to bet 2/3 to keep a weak villain in there. You have to manipulate them a little to make some money off an extra bet.

-When you put a player on a range, and at showdown he shows up with the top portion of that range and beats you, it doesn’t mean your range was bad, it just simply means that he showed up with the best part of that range in this particular hand. I had a hand that bugged me for a bit. I had 2 pair and a fish stacked me with a set. I was sure that he would do that with a variety of TP hands, 2 pair hands and sets…..Illfavor reassured me that it was a proper call given his tendencies…he just happened to have the best possible hand given his possible range, but our call vs that range was a good call.

-Don’t be too aggressive….what do I mean? I remember in 2nl I would have say AK on a K high flop and villain would bet into me maybe ½ pot. I would immediately reraise b/c “I haz TPTK…I need moneez”, and then they would fold. You sometimes have to call a few streets when it looks like opponent is well behind. Let them hang themselves once in a while. This is villain and read dependant but you cant blow every opponent out of the pot just because “calling seems weak” and raising is cooler than calling. The idea is to make the most money possible against that particular opponent, given what cards you have, villain has and what the board contains.

-Cbet flop almost every time against loose passive players (the ones that run 20-30 vpip and pfr >5), unless the flop contains 2-3 overs, I cbet them with success.

-Play your pocket pairs and raise them pre. Esp if there are a lot of loose passives, you will win a lot of pots with cbets.

-I had to adjust my 3betting a little. Rather than always 3betting with KK, AA with position against a weak opponent, I sometimes just called their raise. Seems strange but I found them to fold a lot b/c they would only continue with the strongest of hands…so I flatted and let them into the pot with a wider range. Some may disagree, b/c yes I have AA so what am I worried about, well they wont call my 3bet without QQ+ which doesn’t happen often enough to 3bet imo. Let them come in w/ AQ and win a decent size pot.

-Punish limpers….I still didn’t do this enough but I worked on it. The tables are full of loose passives who fold a lot preflop to raises after limping, so raise and profit.

-There is a lot of money to be made in multiple small pots. I didn’t go to showdown often and didn’t get into a lot of all-ins…but I had tonnes and tonnes of small HU pots where I won on the flop with a cbet (after I missed). These types of pots were often against…. you guessed it, loose passives.

-Unless it’s a maniac, 3bets usually mean big hands so don’t let the ego get involved.

-Set mining is hugely profitable vs regs running 5/2/3…they don’t fold they’re big pairs.

-Unless it’s a maniac, big overbet/shoves are usually with strong hands. Many players you run into can’t build a pot worth shit, and they shove to look like they are bluffing, don’t fall for it unless you have a strong read.

-When it comes to playing the really, really terrible players, don’t let your “I’m better than him” ego take control. You cant call every river bet they make just b/c they suck. Shitty players still get monsters too, the cards aren’t prejudiced.

-Take notes…..bet sizing, timing tells, stack off w/ draws, if they go for broke w/ TPTK etc…

-I had very little chat with other players. You don’t want to be at 5nl long enough to get to know them. I only congratulated players when they made a horrible all in call and sucked out....thats when I would say "NH" or something similar....NEVER BERATE!

-Make sure you review hands you played bad in and see where it went wrong. Don’t waste your fucking time looking at coolers, look at hands where you stacked off w/ TPTK vs a pretty straightforward player who reraises the turn and shoves the river…. Why did you call and where did you go wrong?

-I learned to double barrel a few times vs weak players on boards that were non threatening and contained low cards.
I confess in quicksand
 
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syracuse44
Old 12-01-2009, 08:49 PM #2 (permalink)  

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good info, what site do you play in ?
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Vinland
Old 12-01-2009, 09:01 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 All my pillaging was done in Pokerstars...
I confess in quicksand
 
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Hoopy
Old 12-02-2009, 12:04 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I'm playing 5NL at Pokerstars also, hoping to soon move to 10NL once I feel ready/have the bankroll.

One thing I'd like to point say is see what a 40/6's showdown percentage is, should give a better indication if they are loose-weak or stations.

Also using the color coding system to identify big fish is great, that way you can see them from the lobby.
 
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Pelion
Old 12-02-2009, 12:12 PM #5 (permalink)  
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This is a great post. I predict that if you continue to analyse your play regularly like this you will move up quickly.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Arjonius
Old 12-02-2009, 03:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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A very good overview that matches my experience at this level pretty well across several different sites, so for anyone playing on sites other than Stars, you can still use the info. Keep aware for deviations, but I wouldn't expect anything major, at least not consistently.
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bjsaust
Old 12-02-2009, 07:35 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quick look through and it looks fairly good man.
Just playing to improve.
 
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Sasquach991
Old 12-02-2009, 07:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Review winning hands too.
"Just cause I'm from the South don't mean I ain't got no book learnin'"

Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
...we've all learned long ago how to share the truth without actually having the truth.
 
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mbiz
Old 12-03-2009, 08:45 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 why cbet loose passives a lot (other than for value). isnt a loose passive going to keep calling
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JKDS
Old 12-03-2009, 03:24 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbiz
why cbet loose passives a lot (other than for value). isnt a loose passive going to keep calling
only when they hit
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Vinland
Old 12-03-2009, 06:39 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbiz
why cbet loose passives a lot (other than for value). isnt a loose passive going to keep calling
only when they hit
Agree with JKDS.
I categorize a loose passive as one who calls lots preflop and folds to aggression postflop when they dont connect. They play with their cards face up after a flop call.

A pure call station I wouldn't cbet b/c yes, they call constantly.
I confess in quicksand
 
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nonofyobiz
Old 12-03-2009, 10:22 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Good Post. Current in 5NL too in stars and i can't disagree with anything u said and i've come to many of the same conclusions.

Can u give a summary of your stint at 5NL???
How long were u there? how many hands? 6max or FR? win rate?
how many tables? etc?

I've played only like 1200 hands this month, hoping to get ALOT more in dec, gotta make a more concentrated effort. I need $90 to move up =)
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Vinland
Old 12-05-2009, 04:05 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 I played about 14.5K hands of full ring. I only play about 3K hands per month so it took a bit. My win rate was about 8BB/100. I'm happy with that considering a 4K B/E stretch where I played bad.

I only played an ave of 3 tables. 4 if I was paying attention, 2 if not, and sometimes 3 if I was attentive but there was a table that was particularly juicy that I wanted to really watch....
G/L....I think I've seen you at the tables once or twice.
I confess in quicksand
 
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ljove
Old 12-05-2009, 04:42 PM #14 (permalink)  
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How much money do I need for playing 0.02-0.05 and 0.05-0.1?
Give me advice.
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Vinland
Old 12-05-2009, 05:00 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljove
How much money do I need for playing 0.02-0.05 and 0.05-0.1?
Give me advice.
5nl = $100
10nl = $250
I confess in quicksand
 
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MuddyWicket
Old 12-05-2009, 05:03 PM #16 (permalink)  
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30 buyins? very dependant on yourself imo. There is an aweful lot of information to be found on moving up. Personally I like the idea of some tables of your existing limit and 1/2 of the next. Playing the same level your used to at the same time encourages you to play the same way, which if you are a good player at the weaker level should not be too far off the next level.

gp & gl Vinland.
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bjsaust
Old 12-07-2009, 12:08 AM #17 (permalink)  
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I tried that but it didnt really work for me. Instead I found I prefer to just move up, but play less tables, maybe even 1/2 the tables I used to in the beginning.
Just playing to improve.
 
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