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kevster
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06-07-2006, 12:55 PM
Post subject: Does push/fold mode always apply?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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push/fold mode is something I learnt on this site and have found it invaluable. However, I just wonder if it always applies, e.g. under all circumstances.
On watching TV the other night, I saw a poker game that included pro's and internet players. They started with 6 and were down to 5, the short stack played the whole game with less than 10 * BB and he wasn't solely pushing/folding.
Also, I wondered if push/fold still applied in the following scenario's that I've come across recently....
1. With 5 people left, I've got the second biggest chip stack and the three with less than me aren't pushing/folding.
2. Bubble Play, again where I'm third or better in chip stack sizes.
3. Speed Game. I've seen the blinds rise sufficiently so that even the big stack can't keep up with 10 * BB - Is he/she in push/fold mode?
4. In the money. Similar to the above, blinds can get high and people struggle to meet 10 * BB - does push/fold apply?
If the answer is yes - it always applies then fine. Just wanted to canvass opinion on this so that I can secure it in my mind for future play.
Thanks.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Mathematically with this size chip stack yes, you should still be pushing or folding. To adjust to the different situations you need to put your opponents on ranges of what you think they will call you with and then adjust your pushing range so it is profitable against their calling range [SNGPT is the best tool to help you with this]. If you have a big stack, but not the biggest, you should be more tentative about playing against the one stack that can take you out, and the same goes for micro stacks that will be more likely to call. Again, to account for that you just adjust their ranges and play accordingly.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I'm confused by this post.. could you elaborate when you go into push/fold mode? Right now it looks as if you only ever push or fold, even if you're a bigstack..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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If you are saying that when your stack gets to 10xBB or less you are automatically put in push/fold mode - I disagree.
There are times where you can still make a 2.5 or 3x BB raise with 10xBB and then fold to a reraise and that's the right play.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by chardrian
If you are saying that when your stack gets to 10xBB or less you are automatically put in push/fold mode - I disagree.
There are times where you can still make a 2.5 or 3x BB raise with 10xBB and then fold to a reraise and that's the right play.
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In what situation would this be and why would it be better than a push? If you are playing against weak tight opponents who will fold to any raise then yea, making a "standard" raise can work, and even when they do push over those small raises you are getting good odds to call so its hard to get away from marginal hands.
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andy-akb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chardrian
If you are saying that when your stack gets to 10xBB or less you are automatically put in push/fold mode - I disagree.
There are times where you can still make a 2.5 or 3x BB raise with 10xBB and then fold to a reraise and that's the right play.
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In what situation would this be and why would it be better than a push? If you are playing against weak tight opponents who will fold to any raise then yea, making a "standard" raise can work, and even when they do push over those small raises you are getting good odds to call so its hard to get away from marginal hands. |
E.g. blinds are 400/800 and you have 8k. You have a tight image. The remaining players left to act all have 8k-15k. It is folded to you in the CO and you have A2. I think the play here is to raise to 2400 (leaving you with 5600). If one of the remaining stacks pushes, I would feel comfortable folding because I have enough of a stack left that I still will have fold equity the next hand I do play.
I think the whole decision to go into push/fold comes down to just that. If you have a stack where you would feel comfortable raising preflop and then feel you would still have enough FoldingEquity remaining for the next 15 hands if you folded, then you should just raise. If you would not have enough FE than you should just push.
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kevster
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
could you elaborate when you go into push/fold mode?
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< 10 * BB
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