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Iwind

11-29-2005, 04:17 PM Post subject: Do you make this call?

#1 (permalink)

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***** Hand History for Game 3115077453 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, November 29, 12:08:33 EDT 2005
Table Table 65809 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: AsianBBWs ( $100 )
Seat 2: nami71 ( $276.73 )
Seat 4: Iwind83 ( $105.60 )
Seat 6: RapaskiR ( $30.65 )
Seat 7: dall6298 ( $96.67 )
Seat 8: jsr123 ( $212.62 )
Seat 3: Jm0n3y ( $204 )
Seat 10: hfxsurveyor ( $97.50 )
Seat 9: Phishn4dnuts ( $133 )
Seat 5: TL1981 ( $129.70 )
Iwind83 posts small blind [$0.50].
TL1981 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Iwind83 [ Ks As ]
>You have options at Table 65195 Table!.
RapaskiR calls [$1].
jsr123 folds.
Phishn4dnuts folds.
hfxsurveyor folds.
AsianBBWs folds.
Jm0n3y calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 65195 Table!.
Iwind83 raises [$3.50].
TL1981 folds.
RapaskiR is all-In [$29.65]
Jm0n3y folds.
Iwind83 ?

Do you call here? And why/why not?

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rubixstreub

11-29-2005, 04:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Depends what kind of shortstack he is... I don't think AA or KK with that stack pushes preflop so you're either slightly behind to a PP (but you're putting in $30 to win a $35 pot) or easily have him dominated. I personally wouldn't call that, but in the long run I think it's a +EV play, especially 'cause you're sooted.

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johnny_fish

11-29-2005, 05:00 PM

#3 (permalink)

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EV=~0 vs. a lower PP. The limp-push suggests AA. I think it's more likely for him to have AA/KK then AK/AQ/junk.

Fold.

EricE

11-29-2005, 05:15 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I fold this unless he is much shorter stack. Against any PP you are behind. There is no reason to accept bad odds here.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

rubixstreub

11-29-2005, 05:43 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Oops, didn't see the limp push. Yeah, that's usually AA/KK.

Okay, hypothetically, if you raise PR with AKs and someone pushes like this from the late position as the SS what kind of stack, compared to yours/max buyin, does he have to have for you to call?

I ask because this situation has come up more often than I'd expect, and my current rule at 25NL is call if their stack is less than $10. Anyone want to share their opinions?

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PokerPatNEU

11-29-2005, 05:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Did he buy in short? or take a big hit to his stack recently? If he bought in short and has a low VP$IP, he is monster camping and you are dominated. If he has lost his stack due to bad play and or bad luck, I think calling is OK but folding is alright too depending on how much you like variance. Folding is only a small mistake, calling could be a big one.

Iwind

11-29-2005, 07:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

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He was loose and had been playing badly, that's why the shortstack. In general players who don't rebuy when they drop down are pretty bad from what I have seen, I put him on a lower pp and cause of that I had pot odds to call so I called. He had 55. Bigger stack and no reads or reads suggesting he is camping I agree folding is best, yeah.

BankItDrew

11-30-2005, 05:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Rarely do I see someone limp with KK or AA only to hope for a raise ahead of them. Call this bastard.

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r8ed

11-30-2005, 06:57 PM

#9 (permalink)

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You are starting off behind and MUST catch up to win with AK here. Suitedness adds minimal value. Why bother calling?

SteveO

11-30-2005, 09:56 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Would prefer a little more info to make a read.

Limp/AI is often AA or KK but not always. He can't damage you too much if it all goes in pre-flop. Is he solid, or wild, tilting etc...?

Personally, unless a tournament situation, I do not like to get AI preflop with AK because I am much more comfortable playing post flop.

Depends on how you feel and what you observed from him. No one can say a call was just plain wrong, it depends on your style and a read if any. Some days I make that call, some days I don't.

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Fnord

11-30-2005, 10:03 PM

#11 (permalink)

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I don't like raising AKo from the blinds with deep money, but that's just me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

ilikeaces86

11-30-2005, 10:13 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I don't like raising AKo from the blinds with deep money, but that's just me.

You should start liking it.

Lukie

11-30-2005, 10:15 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwind

He was loose and had been playing badly, that's why the shortstack. In general players who don't rebuy when they drop down are pretty bad from what I have seen, I put him on a lower pp and cause of that I had pot odds to call so I called. He had 55. Bigger stack and no reads or reads suggesting he is camping I agree folding is best, yeah.

The only way I find a fold here is if he is playing very tight and capable of pulling a move like this with KK/AA.

If he was playing loose and poorly like you said and just dropped some cash, I call here all day long. Without actually doing the math, you look to be +EV here vs 22-QQ, and not in too bad of shape vs KK. AA is always a concern, but you have any other somewhat-legitimate holding like AQ dominated.

call

Lukie

11-30-2005, 10:27 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I don't like raising AKo from the blinds with deep money, but that's just me.

You should start liking it.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing arguments on both sides on this one.

I like to mix it up myself, but I usually find myself raising AK from the blinds more often then completing/checking in an unraised pot. Not always though. A raise out of the blinds screams AA/KK/QQ/AK, maybe JJ, but not much else. Playing out of position with that well of a defined hand sucks, but you also want to possibly take the pot down or at least put yourself in position to take it down early before you are put in a huge positional disadvantage. IMO the biggest problem with not raising here, at least sometimes, is that a raise from the blinds would always signal a high PP.

Fnord

11-30-2005, 10:28 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I don't like raising AKo from the blinds with deep money, but that's just me.

You should start liking it.

Out of position, deep money, well defined hand that will often hit lukewarm. Feel free to chime in with what about this exactly should make me want to put lots of money into the pot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

KoRnholio

11-30-2005, 10:44 PM

#16 (permalink)

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AKo I like to limp from the blinds, makes it easy to toss when you miss.

I've seen the limp-reraise (often all in) with anything from AK, JJ+, KQs..

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

r8ed

12-01-2005, 04:13 AM

#17 (permalink)

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If he didn't limp/push and just pushed initially, do you call? This is a cash game, what's the rush?

Lukie

12-01-2005, 04:37 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilikeaces86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I don't like raising AKo from the blinds with deep money, but that's just me.

You should start liking it.

Out of position, deep money, well defined hand that will often hit lukewarm. Feel free to chime in with what about this exactly should make me want to put lots of money into the pot...

For argument's sake, how would this differ from raising UTG, other then the fact that nobody has voluntarily put money into the pot already and you MAY have position on one or two of the blinds post-flop.

journey075

12-01-2005, 08:23 AM

#19 (permalink)

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i fold. while you might be ahead or have marginal odds to flip, i just dont care enough to invest in this pot without a read.

aleksandr

12-01-2005, 12:56 PM

#20 (permalink)

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I guess count your odds. You're either way behind, 50-50, or way ahead. My hands that make this play: AA KK QQ AK and a very loose or fishy AQs

1 + 3.5 + .5 + 1 = 6 + 30 = pot size of 36 / your call of 26.5 = 1.35:1. I make the fold here, and I think you're usually behind.

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Fnord

12-01-2005, 04:37 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

I might steal the blinds and I do have position on them.

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DrizztAA

12-01-2005, 07:24 PM

#22 (permalink)

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A clear call in my opinion. I wouldn't give him credit for AA or KK, though they are possible hands. Generally, a player refusing to rebuy at this point is fish. Sure, a limp-raise is an indicator of AA/KK but when a guy this shortstacked does it, he is imho as likely to have a low pp. In terms of pot odds you have an small edge against a lower pp here, and you shouldn't pass on even very small edeges in a ring game. Also, there is a reasonable chance he holds AQ or AJ, in wich case you of course are way ahead...

naturaltan

12-01-2005, 07:32 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwind

and the result to calling his all-in with 55 was what?

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