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Do you fold your QQ here?

  
 
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Danh Bai
Old 10-10-2008, 11:22 AM     Post subject: Do you fold your QQ here? #1 (permalink)  
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I know I should have made a bigger re-raise pre-flop... Is my flop bet ok, or should I have potted it or checked? I felt like he had KK or AA based on him re-raising a 3rd time.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (8 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($7.25)
MP1 ($4.65)
MP2 ($6.70)
CO ($2.58)
Button ($24.30)
Hero (SB) ($19.80)
BB ($19.40)
UTG ($19.45)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q
5 folds, Button raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $0.60, BB raises to $1.80, Button calls $1.40, Hero calls $1.20

Flop: ($5.40) 4, 7, 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $6.45, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $10.40 | Rake: $0.50
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:36 AM #2 (permalink)  
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considering the stack sizes yeah probably...

i don't like that min re raise.. if you gonna re raise someone... do it right...
 
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ponyboy
Old 10-10-2008, 01:15 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Reraise more preflop for sure, probably $1.20. But you got rereraised which generally means AA,KK, however some will do this with AK. Any reads on villain?

If it were me and I had AA on that flop I would likely call your bet only to get more money out of you. I'd say he probably had KK or AK because he was making you pay hard to see another card.
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spoonitnow
Old 10-10-2008, 01:38 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 You have a flop SPR of like 3.5-4 so this is generally going to be an easy stack-off.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:20 PM #5 (permalink)  
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What is the BB's range? It's going to be slightly tighter than if you hadn't raised, but you didn't quite 3-bet... you just swelled the pot. He pretty much squeezed you guys. It's pretty wide. Maybe ATs+, AJo+, TT+, KQs or possibly tighter than that.

But what is his range on the flop? Flush draws, overcards, overpairs. Is he going to raise with AKo? Or only with a flush draw or overpair?

You're about a flip against flush draw + overcards (depending on whether he has two overcards to your pair or just one)
you crush TT, JJ and get crushed by KK, AA

if he does this with AKo...
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martindcx1e
Old 10-10-2008, 02:27 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboy
If it were me and I had AA on that flop I would likely call your bet only to get more money out of you. I'd say he probably had KK or AK because he was making you pay hard to see another card.
you are over thinking it. just because you wouldn't do that with AA doesn't mean it's not standard. AA is very easily in his range.
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senchao
Old 10-12-2008, 08:38 AM #7 (permalink)  

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I'm putting him on KK or AA as well, I'd fold also.
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Zel
Old 10-12-2008, 09:30 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I like your fold!

As for getting more money out of AA, I think the villain would want to pot it right there if he had the best hand (AA). He could have been protecting himself from the flush draw. His raise was pretty high, and I'm not sure how many outs he canceled out by giving you incorrect odds if you were on a draw.

I'm still reading more on trying to calculate odds! Is my train of thoughts on the right track in terms of protection?
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Thunder
Old 10-12-2008, 10:51 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I am gonna take a stab at the answer as I am also looking for help as I am about to enter the murky world of cash.

This particular hand is another reason why I find it so hard to read people at these stakes.

From my experience, many will reraise pf with AK and so the flop bet could just be a missed c bet. Also, if villain had KK or AA then would he really be so scared about a flop of 4 4 7 - even with the flush draw - as to go all in? That doesn't seem a way to extract maximum value.

To me, it looks like:

a) a total bluff
b) AK or
c) a smaller pp that villain is trying to protect (and is taking advantage of the low flop)

Of course this is 20NL so villain could have ATC including, KK, AA and quad 4s. Personally, I'd find it hard NOT to stack off and I also think "it's only 20nl - most are probably recreational donks, why the over analysis? Just push!"

But then again, that is why I am still in the BC, especially as cash is concerned.

Answers mucho appreciated.
 
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