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Do you ever draw to a pair?

  
 
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freechus9
Old 06-28-2006, 02:36 AM     Post subject: Do you ever draw to a pair? #1 (permalink)  
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I'm not sure whether you can use overcards as legit outs to draw to a pair. For example:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($9.85)
MP1 ($16.20)
MP2 ($15.40)
Hero ($10.15)
Button ($10.75)
SB ($10.85)
BB ($13.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, Q. UTG posts a blind of $0.15.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.55) T, 8, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $0.4, Hero...

I have 4 outs to the straight, but can I count the 3 J's and 3 Q's as outs to TP as well?
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The Izebox
Old 06-28-2006, 02:52 AM     Post subject: draw to the pair #2 (permalink)  
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1. Why didnt you raise preflop? JQ in the late position means a pot size raise to me, something that will also help to define your hand and reduce the amount of callers preflop (essential)

2. I never draw on the gutshot (except for special situations)

3. drawing on over cards will probably get you in more trouble than theyre worth, you could be dominated, the guy betting could beat a pair and hitting your jack on the turn will just get you in serious trouble.

4.Either raise or fold. DONT CALL with a hand like this (i would fold)
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benny999
Old 06-28-2006, 03:27 AM #3 (permalink)  
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-36645.htm
Quote:
Example 3: you have AhKh. The flop comes 9h8c7d. You have 6 outs to TPTK. You also have a backdoor flush draw. A backdoor flush draw is worth about 1.5 outs, and these outs are to the nuts. Your 6 outs to TPTK, however, are less valuable than usual (usually an out to top pair should be counted around 1/2-3/4 depending on how many people in the pot ... the more people, the less the chance top pair will be good). If there are a lot of people in the pot, It is very likely at least one of them has an OESD. Add this to the chances that someone has made 2pair, a set, or will improve to 2 pair, and your TPTK outs are probably only worth a little over a third an out each. If you are heads up, however, I would give the TPTK outs at least 80% value. In that case, though, your chances of being ahead with A high are also significant, and it is unlikely that you are going to be folding. Let's be generous and give our TPTK outs a value of 2.5. Added to the backdoor flush outs, this gives us a hand worth 4 outs. A 4 out hand has a pot equity of 16.5% on the flop.
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