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ponyboy
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12-03-2005, 09:26 PM
Post subject: Do all the fish come out on weekends?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Or is it just that I'm a total fish?
All week I have been fine Monday through Friday playing consistently good poker and winning. Then Saturday comes along and it seems like I can't hit anything, and go through everything I won this week in about two hours. Totally tilted right now and I'm shutting my computer down. Last straw was getting my QQ cracked to A7o on a rivered ace after a preflop 4xBB raise, hard bet on flop and turn and the guy called an all in before he saw the river with just a pair of 7's. That made me explode.
Plus - raises preflop (even 5-8xBB) were still getting called by 3-4 people, people were betting hard when they had nothing and trying to bluff out, people were chasing left right and center. Made for some big pots but man.
Do you find play totally different on weekends than during the week? I don't think I'm ever going to play on a weekend again after today.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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Variance is a bitch, take a break and comeback with a positive attitude its all you can do.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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lowBoy
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
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If a 6-8xBB raise doesn't get isolation, make it 12-15BB and only with premium hands. Maybe try AOK's Counterplay strategy?
You should be glad someone went in against your QQ with only 3 outs on the river - I know, it's maddening and if you're prone to tilt, you should maybe look for different tables (or in your case, just play M-F).
I also find that I do better when it's only passive fish and a few decent players. Perhaps it's also tilt for me? I'm usually good, but who knows what subtle effects bad beats wreak on my brain.
My style of preflop raises and selective aggression works well to net me a slow and steady winrate at more passive tables anyways, although in theory, there's more money at the crazy fishy tables - if you can stomach the variance.
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Whoa, the fish are certainly out this weekend!! Except I've been on the positive side mostly (50BB/100!!!!!) the last two days! TPGK is GOOT!!
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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mouteut
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 152
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Predictable Tight weaks is the alternative 
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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I usually find more drunks on the weekend (especially in juicy live games!!) who make even more dontastic plays... need to adjust to them and realize they'll be chasing the backdoor flush draws and all that crap
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Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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What limits do you play at? That might be your problem. Nickle and dime blinds attract gamb00ling donkeys like there's no tomorrow.
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DoGGz
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lambchopdc
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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Yes fish come out on weekends. Actually, the super fish come out on weekends. There is a difference between fish and super fish. Fish can be put on a hand or on a draw. Super fish play J9s the same way they play AA. They are completely irradic and horribly unbeatable in the short run. I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play. I would much rather wait until monday morning when the players are so weak-tight I just steal my way to a 3k stack. As far suggesting you raise 12x preflop....please tell me someone did not just recommend that...i'm going to pretend noone did. And btw, its not just variance, it is the weekends and if anyone disagrees they can check out my PT stats and find out how horribly wrong you are. And i think suggesting to him that he needs to come back with a "positive attitude" is the wrong advice. I find someone always has to respond to a question with this like "its just variance, get over it." Well its not so don't get his spirits down. If his style of play doesn't work against the weekend players....he shouldn't play the weekend players. Picking the time to play is just as important as picking the right table to play on.
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lambchopdc
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
What limits do you play at? That might be your problem. Nickle and dime blinds attract gamb00ling donkeys like there's no tomorrow.
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I play $55 - $119 SNGs the weekend fish at my stakes are even worse than those at the $5 SNGs
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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Yes fish come out on weekends. Actually, the super fish come out on weekends. There is a difference between fish and super fish. Fish can be put on a hand or on a draw. Super fish play J9s the same way they play AA. They are completely irradic and horribly unbeatable in the short run. I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play. I would much rather wait until monday morning when the players are so weak-tight I just steal my way to a 3k stack. As far suggesting you raise 12x preflop....please tell me someone did not just recommend that...i'm going to pretend noone did. And btw, its not just variance, it is the weekends and if anyone disagrees they can check out my PT stats and find out how horribly wrong you are. And i think suggesting to him that he needs to come back with a "positive attitude" is the wrong advice. I find someone always has to respond to a question with this like "its just variance, get over it." Well its not so don't get his spirits down. If his style of play doesn't work against the weekend players....he shouldn't play the weekend players. Picking the time to play is just as important as picking the right table to play on. |
Hold up, I thought we were talking cash games and not SNG's? In a SNG it's a little tougher to exploit some of the loose bad play that often accompanies SNG's due to the rising blinds which force the action. In a cash game I can exploit weak play and take advantage of weaker players because I know that I can fold for five orbits and not be forced into a marginal situation. In a cash game I will push every edge to the max. I'll put a buy-in on the line as a 3-2 favorite. But I won't do that nessicarily in a tournament, I'll wait for a better spot. That's my take.
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lambchopdc
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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Yes fish come out on weekends. Actually, the super fish come out on weekends. There is a difference between fish and super fish. Fish can be put on a hand or on a draw. Super fish play J9s the same way they play AA. They are completely irradic and horribly unbeatable in the short run. I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play. I would much rather wait until monday morning when the players are so weak-tight I just steal my way to a 3k stack. As far suggesting you raise 12x preflop....please tell me someone did not just recommend that...i'm going to pretend noone did. And btw, its not just variance, it is the weekends and if anyone disagrees they can check out my PT stats and find out how horribly wrong you are. And i think suggesting to him that he needs to come back with a "positive attitude" is the wrong advice. I find someone always has to respond to a question with this like "its just variance, get over it." Well its not so don't get his spirits down. If his style of play doesn't work against the weekend players....he shouldn't play the weekend players. Picking the time to play is just as important as picking the right table to play on. |
Hold up, I thought we were talking cash games and not SNG's? In a SNG it's a little tougher to exploit some of the loose bad play that often accompanies SNG's due to the rising blinds which force the action. In a cash game I can exploit weak play and take advantage of weaker players because I know that I can fold for five orbits and not be forced into a marginal situation. In a cash game I will push every edge to the max. I'll put a buy-in on the line as a 3-2 favorite. But I won't do that nessicarily in a tournament, I'll wait for a better spot. That's my take. |
I quote myself - "I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play."
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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Yes fish come out on weekends. Actually, the super fish come out on weekends. There is a difference between fish and super fish. Fish can be put on a hand or on a draw. Super fish play J9s the same way they play AA. They are completely irradic and horribly unbeatable in the short run. I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play. I would much rather wait until monday morning when the players are so weak-tight I just steal my way to a 3k stack. As far suggesting you raise 12x preflop....please tell me someone did not just recommend that...i'm going to pretend noone did. And btw, its not just variance, it is the weekends and if anyone disagrees they can check out my PT stats and find out how horribly wrong you are. And i think suggesting to him that he needs to come back with a "positive attitude" is the wrong advice. I find someone always has to respond to a question with this like "its just variance, get over it." Well its not so don't get his spirits down. If his style of play doesn't work against the weekend players....he shouldn't play the weekend players. Picking the time to play is just as important as picking the right table to play on. |
Hold up, I thought we were talking cash games and not SNG's? In a SNG it's a little tougher to exploit some of the loose bad play that often accompanies SNG's due to the rising blinds which force the action. In a cash game I can exploit weak play and take advantage of weaker players because I know that I can fold for five orbits and not be forced into a marginal situation. In a cash game I will push every edge to the max. I'll put a buy-in on the line as a 3-2 favorite. But I won't do that nessicarily in a tournament, I'll wait for a better spot. That's my take. |
I quote myself - "I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play." |
This is a cash game forum, which is why you had me confused.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
Your thinking tilted. Its just variance. You should want to play with fishies. Whats the alternative? Play with good players?
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Yes fish come out on weekends. Actually, the super fish come out on weekends. There is a difference between fish and super fish. Fish can be put on a hand or on a draw. Super fish play J9s the same way they play AA. They are completely irradic and horribly unbeatable in the short run. I'm not a cash player so I don't know how you guys deal with these fish, but as a SNG player....i just don't play. I would much rather wait until monday morning when the players are so weak-tight I just steal my way to a 3k stack. As far suggesting you raise 12x preflop....please tell me someone did not just recommend that...i'm going to pretend noone did. And btw, its not just variance, it is the weekends and if anyone disagrees they can check out my PT stats and find out how horribly wrong you are. And i think suggesting to him that he needs to come back with a "positive attitude" is the wrong advice. I find someone always has to respond to a question with this like "its just variance, get over it." Well its not so don't get his spirits down. If his style of play doesn't work against the weekend players....he shouldn't play the weekend players. Picking the time to play is just as important as picking the right table to play on. |
I'm sorry but I really don't agree. I don't know much about SnGs but here I'm talking about cash games, because this is a cash game forum, so try to transfer your thoughts so they are viable in a ring game.
Take your average ring game player. Where will he have a higher win rate over 200,000 hands - 10NL with all the fish or 2000NL with the best online players there is? Take all the best cash game players in the world and put average joe at a table with them and he WILL get creamed. What is the reason for this? Its because its easier to beat bad players. Thats why they are called bad players. Thats why they are found (for the most part) in low stake games, because its easier. I cannot see how you can fault this.
The origional post says, and I quote, 'All week I have been fine Monday through Friday playing consistently good poker and winning. Then Saturday comes along and it seems like I can't hit anything, and go through everything I won this week in about two hours.' This is the definition of variance. Playing fine but still loosing because of the element of luck in poker. Therefore I post saying that it is just variance and it will pass. Ponyboy is fairly new here so I assumed he is fairly new to poker. He may not have experienced big swings before so I try to boost his confidence by afferming any thoughts he may have had that he was experiencing variance. I cannoy see how you can fault my line here.
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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I  playing with loose passive lemmings.
Once I made Fnord's move andbutton - raised 3BB my pocket ducks. Flopped set and dragged 300BB pot taking down 4 shortstacks instead of usual destacking AA tight nit.
My fishlist for bossmedia is growing and growing...
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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lambchopdc
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 350
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I understand that this is a cash game forum. However i believe the point i'm making has nothing to do with this. The question was regarding the weekend players. And my point was, if he's killing the weekday players, and losing to the weekend players...why play in an environment he can't beat? Thats like an investor saying "we'll i'm really good at picking bonds and making a ton of money, but i lose all of that profit and more cuz i can't seem to make a profit picking the right high risk stocks, i guess i'll keep trying until i figure it out." Would anyone recommend this? No. Commense sense says stick to where you are good. Cash or SNG, weekday players and weekend players are two different breeds that require 2 different playing styles to beat. Playing poker is about one thing, MONEY. If he's making money beating the weekday fish, and losing it all to the weekend fish, stop playing the weekend fish. Whatever you play, cash, sngs, or MTTs; this all still applies.
"Do you find play totally different on weekends than during the week? I don't think I'm ever going to play on a weekend again after today."
Ponyboy, take it from me, i've been through this EXACT same problem, fighting it will only drive you nuts and leave u with a migraine. If you aren't comfortable with the weekend players right now, don't play them. Either wait till u have a bigger bankroll, or if you must play on the weekends play lower stakes where the variance doesn't bother you. I'll be there right with you stealing the weekday players' money. Keep it up and keep winning $$$.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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In cash games I have found that if you are at a table with more than 7 LAGGS that always see the flop (Pokerroom), it's difficult to beat playing TAG. I like to have 4 fish, 1 rock and 3 OK players or close to those numbers. Weekends are definitely looser - especially at night. Friday night is insane. You can't really bluff much, just show down the best hand each time.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Playing poker is about one thing, MONEY. If he's making money beating the weekday fish, and losing it all to the weekend fish, stop playing the weekend fish.
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He is loosing money by NOT playing the weekend fish. It takes a few hours practice and about a half hours thinking for anyone to change a few things in their game and enable themselves to crush these fishy games for a far higher win-rate then is attainable in games with a higher standard of play (as you would find at the weekend). Not playing in fishy games is holding yourself back.
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m3laNcholy
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 232
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Wait till you see the fish parade during the holidays.
Just hate it, everyone vacation having fun playing poker and I have to work...with them.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mouteut
Predictable Tight weaks is the alternative |
Hit the nail on the head right there. It's quite the shift going from beating up weak tighties to wading through seas of loose passive (sometimes aggressive) fish.
I make nice, steady gains online (2/4 limit). Then seem to get smoked most of the time in the live 3/6 kill game near my house (usually 7-8 to a flop, any pair or draw calls). My last 3 sessions there are +$240, -$150, -$100. It makes me sad to see way less hands and little to no profit. Not to mention next to no hand reading practice since people usually don't even know how good or bad their hand really is..
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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I went on my biggest tilt lastnight after loosing 15% of my bankroll in one sitting. So what I did was start going all in preflop with every hand dealt to me, thinking that if I hit a couple times that I'd feel better. Well, now my bankroll looks even worse and I'm no richer than I was before the tilt. I need to practice some dicipline again, I found myself making some dumb moves which put me in the spot I was in.
I suggest taking some time off, which is what I'm going to do. Maybe a couple days away from Pokerstars. I'll be right back at it on the weekend trying to make it to $200.
Actually I'll probably be playing today sometime during work.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
I went on my biggest tilt lastnight after loosing 15% of my bankroll in one sitting. So what I did was start going all in preflop with every hand dealt to me, thinking that if I hit a couple times that I'd feel better. Well, now my bankroll looks even worse and I'm no richer than I was before the tilt. I need to practice some dicipline again, I found myself making some dumb moves which put me in the spot I was in.
I suggest taking some time off, which is what I'm going to do. Maybe a couple days away from Pokerstars. I'll be right back at it on the weekend trying to make it to $200.
Actually I'll probably be playing today sometime during work. |
If you tilted that bad, you need at least a WEEK off.
1. Why was more than 10% of your bankroll even at risk at once??
2. Why did you continue to play when you recognized that you were on TILT??
3. Are you playing for fun, or just to make money?
Seriously though. Take at least a week away, and come back with a focused mind. If you take another bad beat today, what do you think will happen then??
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
I went on my biggest tilt lastnight after loosing 15% of my bankroll in one sitting. So what I did was start going all in preflop with every hand dealt to me, thinking that if I hit a couple times that I'd feel better. Well, now my bankroll looks even worse and I'm no richer than I was before the tilt. I need to practice some dicipline again, I found myself making some dumb moves which put me in the spot I was in.
I suggest taking some time off, which is what I'm going to do. Maybe a couple days away from Pokerstars. I'll be right back at it on the weekend trying to make it to $200.
Actually I'll probably be playing today sometime during work. |
If you tilted that bad, you need at least a WEEK off.
1. Why was more than 10% of your bankroll even at risk at once??
2. Why did you continue to play when you recognized that you were on TILT??
3. Are you playing for fun, or just to make money?
Seriously though. Take at least a week away, and come back with a focused mind. If you take another bad beat today, what do you think will happen then?? |
1. I play 8 tables on 5NL with a bankroll of $150 = 27%
2.Poor dicipline. I am quite ashamed and vow to never let it happen again.
3.Both.
Maybe a week away would be a good idea.. I think I'll stick to practicing dicipline though, by staying consistant and avoiding tilt.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Just don't try to make it all back at once. That's a recipe for disaster and will lead to more tilt. Just play your game.
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reap
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8
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Fun is synonymous with making money in poker. Wouldn't be playing if I didn't make money, wouldn't be having fun if I didn't make money, wouldn't be playing if I didn't have fun.
Cracks me up the people who claim they just "want to have fun" and don't care about the money. Role a die. It would be a lot cheaper.
Someone way up there was talking about how to play against players that play J9 the same way they play AA. Easy. Make hands. Then bet them. Get as much money into the pot with TPGK and better. Forget about reading. Make decisions solely based on the strength of your own hand relative to other possible hands, not his possible hand, because his possible hand = all possible hands.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
If you aren't comfortable with the weekend players right now, don't play them. Either wait till u have a bigger bankroll, or if you must play on the weekends play lower stakes where the variance doesn't bother you. I'll be there right with you stealing the weekday players' money. Keep it up and keep winning $$$.
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Or, you could come to a popular and informative website and ask helpful and experienced players how to adjust your game. To instruct someone to avoid playing worse players is just wrong.
Also, IRICHeyes OTM.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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What does OTM mean?
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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On the money...I suspect.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Oh ok ty
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lowBoy
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 513
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OTM = Out of The Money
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bearcats05
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 336
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yeah don't come on here and give him bad advice and tell him not to play the bad weekend players... it sounds like it was just one week, in the long run he will make money.
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Toad13
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: L5 Atl, Ga
Posts: 61
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I have read a lot of you telling him its variance; maybe it is that’s not my strong point. I have not seen anyone give there advise on changes he can make to his game on the weekends to combat the different play he sees. My two cents, play your starting hands more passive pre-flop, the fish/donk will not fold there K10o to a 15xBB pre-flop but will call to the river with it after you hit your set. It is my observation that 1-3 fish will call to the river with the two cards they have thinking there good no matter how much you raise the turn an river because you know you have the nuts. I f this is wrong advise then please state so and then give the right advise (I want to know).
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toad13
I have not seen anyone give there advise on changes he can make to his game on the weekends to combat the different play he sees.
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Good point, sorry dude.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=22941
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=8063
Thats all I can think of at the moment.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Yes, OTM = on the money. It's a good thing 
I used to have negative stats for Saturdays, which was because I tended to make most of my winnings bullying weak tight people out of pots and on saturdays the increased number of calling stations meant my raises simply weren't working. So I became more classically TAggy and it works wonders.
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Jiggus
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Someone did give him advice early on: AOK's Counterplay strategy. It's targeted at fishy tables. It works, full stop. You need patience, though. Lots of it.
Oh, and loads of discipline, 'cause you'll be folding a lot of hole cards that you may not want to. That's until you get used to it, at least. Nowadays, AT suited is just as junky to me as 39 off. An easy pre-flop fold.
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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