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Differences between micro NL and micro MTT

  
 
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revolvingiris
Old 06-02-2009, 07:13 PM     Post subject: Differences between micro NL and micro MTT #1 (permalink)  
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Ive switched over to playing half MTTs and half FR NL5. But I am absolutly getting crushed in my ring gams. I'm trying to figure out what is the deal with these things?!?!
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revolvingiris
Old 06-02-2009, 08:24 PM     Post subject: Added HH #2 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($2.82)
MP1 ($4.06)
MP2 ($3.90)
CO ($1)
Button ($2.40)
SB ($5.27)
BB ($5)
Hero (UTG) ($5)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.08, CO (poster) calls $0.06, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.33) 8, 9, 4 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.33, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.66, Hero raises to $1.80, BB raises to $4.92 (All-In), Hero calls $3.12 (All-In)

Turn: ($10.17) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($10.17) 2 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $10.17 | Rake: $0.50

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($2.75)
UTG ($4.16)
UTG+1 ($3.55)
MP1 ($3.93)
MP2 ($5.23)
MP3 ($2.28)
CO ($4.50)
Button ($5.06)
Hero (SB) ($4.84)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
5 folds, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.24) A, 10, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.18, CO calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.60) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.52, CO calls $0.52

River: ($1.64) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2, Hero folds

Total pot: $1.64 | Rake: $0.05

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($1.44)
Hero (Button) ($5.78)
SB ($1.37)
BB ($3)
UTG ($3.22)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 5, K, 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.08, BB calls $0.08

Turn: ($0.33) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, BB calls $0.25

River: ($0.83) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $0.70, Hero folds

Total pot: $0.83 | Rake: $0
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revolvingiris
Old 06-02-2009, 08:32 PM #3 (permalink)  
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"Times","Win %","Amount Won","$/Hand","BB/Hand","Blind","CCPF","VP$IP","W$WSF","PFR","RFI"," LWPC","WTSD","W$SD"

1216, 7.32, (-27.68), (-0.02), (-0.17), 321, 12.72, 16.20, 26.34, 6.50, 9.76, 62.96, 23.87, 36.21
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Cougar
Old 06-03-2009, 02:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Hear ya, transition from MTT to FR Cash was tough adjustment for me too when I first did it (went -8 Buy-Ins in first 2k hands)

1200 Hands is such a small sample size, post your stats again once ya hit 10k

Regarding your hands, here are my thoughts:
1.) Either Call Flop Re-Raise/re-evaluate Turn or fold is fine too. Don't like the shove, would expect to see mostly 2-Pair+ playing for stacks on that flop (maybe an QQ/KK or occasional Axs nut flush draw)

2.) Like the action down to the river, you charged for the draw. River is so read-dependent (hint). Without reads, probably fold to the >PSB bet and make a note.

3.) Bet more on the flop (.10-.12), I like the turn bet and without reads I am calling down the river and expecting to win a fair bit of the time.

Again, reads/stats are so helpful in these situations, including them will result in better analysis/discussion.

Hope this helps, good luck!!
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:43 PM #5 (permalink)  
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ring games take more skill, that's why
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revolvingiris
Old 06-03-2009, 05:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
ring games take more skill, that's why
Seriously? Is this the general consensus? Either way I have a ton to learn by switching to rings.
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revolvingiris
Old 06-03-2009, 06:04 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar
Hear ya, transition from MTT to FR Cash was tough adjustment for me too when I first did it (went -8 Buy-Ins in first 2k hands)

1200 Hands is such a small sample size, post your stats again once ya hit 10k

Regarding your hands, here are my thoughts:
1.) Either Call Flop Re-Raise/re-evaluate Turn or fold is fine too. Don't like the shove, would expect to see mostly 2-Pair+ playing for stacks on that flop (maybe an QQ/KK or occasional Axs nut flush draw)

2.) Like the action down to the river, you charged for the draw. River is so read-dependent (hint). Without reads, probably fold to the >PSB bet and make a note.

3.) Bet more on the flop (.10-.12), I like the turn bet and without reads I am calling down the river and expecting to win a fair bit of the time.

Again, reads/stats are so helpful in these situations, including them will result in better analysis/discussion.

Hope this helps, good luck!!
I'll be able to post reads/villain stats from now on.
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JR9477
Old 06-03-2009, 06:20 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I agree, ring games take a lot more skill.
I had a lot of trouble when switching as well, i was down quite a bit before I dug myself out of the red.

One change I made was to buyin for 100bb($2), looks like you're buying in for the max.
This made a lot of my commitment decisions much easier, especially with overpairs and TPTK type hands.
Also, it's harder for others to extract the value for their "miracle" hands that many at 2nl like to play.

Note: You're actually playing 2nl (100bb x .02 = $2)
(Josh)
 
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AFchung
Old 06-03-2009, 08:00 PM #9 (permalink)  
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generally speaking, none of your bets should be less than half pot because they don't really accomplish anything.

when in doubt, bet close to 2/3rds pot
if the board is dry bet less.
when its wet or i think someones drawing, bet more.
if its a wet board multiway and my hand is likely best but vulnerable, bet pot.

obviously pretty general, but it should give you a bit more of an idea on how to tailor your bet sizing
 
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:38 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvingiris
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
ring games take more skill, that's why
Seriously? Is this the general consensus? Either way I have a ton to learn by switching to rings.
it's tougher playing deep
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revolvingiris
Old 06-04-2009, 05:40 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the responses guys...One thing I have always thought was kind of weird was that even though I was playing 1c-2c blinds, I could always buy in for $5. Shouldnt you always buy in for the max so you are able to extract as much as you can per "playing for stacks"?
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van.dog
Old 06-04-2009, 06:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
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My experience as a new player is that the more i buy in for the faster I go down in the red. I'm not experienced enough to maximize my winnings.

I'm basically a fish for the sharks so why not let them take smaller bites than a $5 buy in?
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Stacks
Old 06-04-2009, 06:45 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvingiris
Thanks for the responses guys...One thing I have always thought was kind of weird was that even though I was playing 1c-2c blinds, I could always buy in for $5. Shouldnt you always buy in for the max so you are able to extract as much as you can per "playing for stacks"?
Depends. Playing 200bb deep is different than playing 100bb deep, which is different than playing 60bb or 40bb deep. Your ranges must change, villain's ranges are likely to change, etc. So if you are inexperienced playing 200bb deep, then it's likely not the greatest idea to buyin for 250bb when others at the table are that deep also. If you are fine with playing that deep, and have an edge over the competition, then sure it's a good idea as you have more chips on the table for when you induce them to make mistakes.
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revolvingiris
Old 06-05-2009, 11:08 AM #14 (permalink)  
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I havent played enough hands to know if I have an edge or not. PT tells me I suck so I guess ill focus on 100bb being thats what you buyin for as you move up levels.
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Robb
Old 06-05-2009, 01:47 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvingiris
I havent played enough hands to know if I have an edge or not. PT tells me I suck so I guess ill focus on 100bb being thats what you buyin for as you move up levels.
You can buy-in for 75 or 80 bb's which protects your TPTK from the nut-campers a bit and still allows you to profit well when you hit your hand.

I'd like to think cash takes more skill than tourneys, but I suck at tourneys and do well at cash. I think it's a different skill set.

The main thing I lack that most SnG/MTT players have is patience. I can't tell at the beginning of a session whether I'm ready to play for an hour or not.

There are some extremely skillful tourney players who play hardly any cash. I'd like to hear what mcatdog thinks. He's the person on FTR who seems to play the most even mix of tourneys and cash and has had massive success at both, imo.
 
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revolvingiris
Old 06-06-2009, 12:55 AM #16 (permalink)  
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At what limit-ish should you no longer short buy? Or is that like some 1000 level thinking where you just know ?

I second the notion about hearing mcatdogs thoughts!
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:55 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by revolvingiris
At what limit-ish should you no longer short buy? Or is that like some 1000 level thinking where you just know ?

I second the notion about hearing mcatdogs thoughts!
at 2NL if you're rolled for it
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revolvingiris
Old 06-06-2009, 07:29 PM #18 (permalink)  
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lol k, I never do I was just wondering.
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