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kevin_476
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01-12-2007, 01:28 PM
Post subject: Difference between learning and being told what to do
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2
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Before I begin, this is posted here because it is mainly applicable to the posts one sees in the Beginners Forum.
OK, I have been thinking about this for some time now. This first came to my attention in someone's blog here; I think it was Lukie's. It was a discussion on why you don't see the top notch players posting much in forums because they either know everything or want to figure out ideas for themselves. It's something along those lines, anyways here it goes, this could be somewhat controversial due to recent events however I think this is an important concept:
Sometimes you just have to figure things out for yourself
It's pretty simple, but for the most part at this forum I do not see this happening. I’m not criticizing anyone. I especially do not want the veteran posters who answer every single noob question to feel attacked by this. However, at what point do we stop getting fed the answers and actually go out and find them ourselves?
Sure, there are some extremely complex situations which elicit great debates. However, the countless endless stream of repetitiveness is starting to become somewhat ridiculous. I hope some of the newer members of FTR catch this and take the advice:
You will become hugely more successful at poker if you take the initiative to teach yourself
Until you sit down, analyze a hand, a line, a tournament, an anything, you will not fully understand the complex concepts of the game. It is just that simple. Having one of the veteran players tell you why you should have folded KJ to a push or why opening an Ace on the button is automatic will never make you a great poker player. You yourself need to look at this situation and determine WHY a certain play is the RIGHT play. Until you do this you will never truly improve at poker. Poker is not a buddy system, FTR is a great place to bounce ideas around but should not a place for holding your hand when you walk across the street.
What the beginners/strugglers need to realize is that poker is a game where you get what you put into it. If you put some hard work, time, and effort into your game, it will improve. If you come in here, ask questions you could have answered yourself, get a cookie-cutter answer, and remain stagnant in your abilities you only have yourself to blame.
I would like to see this happen more often:
1. A beginner has a question, he/she wants to post it here/in NL strats/in SNG's/etc...
2. Before the beginner hits the 'submit' button he/she actually goes and researches the topic. Wether it be using our search engine, other forums, Poker Books, or any other article.
3. The beginner then answers his/her own question in their post.
4. Member then analyze this
I really see this as a much more constructive way to learn a concept. I know the "beginner" forum is here to be open to any questions and for us to provide the answers. However, I have to wonder:
How good of a service are we really providing?
Do veteran members just stating the same answer to the same question actually produce any true improvement? I think not. From now on I think this forum should take a more Socratic method.
Let's start answering questions with questions.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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deja vu?
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Da GOAT
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01-12-2007, 05:04 PM
Post subject: Re: Difference between learning and being told what to do
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#4 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kevin_476
However, the countless endless stream of repetitiveness is starting to become somewhat ridiculous.
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 when did you register????
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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martypalin
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 64
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Maybe a long time lurker but he has some good points. Maybe he took some advice and it backfired? I do agree with some of what he's said though, not about the forum's advice but learning yourself
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click your mouse, lose your house
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martypalin
Maybe a long time lurker but he has some good points. Maybe he took some advice and it backfired? I do agree with some of what he's said though, not about the forum's advice but learning yourself
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Maybe he straight up copied word for word?
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...o-do-48927.htm
Fuck, I wasted my last two posts before 1500 on this garbage.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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martypalin
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 64
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martypalin
Maybe a long time lurker but he has some good points. Maybe he took some advice and it backfired? I do agree with some of what he's said though, not about the forum's advice but learning yourself
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Maybe he straight up copied word for word?
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...o-do-48927.htm
Fuck, I wasted my last two posts before 1500 on this garbage. |
My bad eh, why didn't I read EVERY post on here before making a comment. 
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click your mouse, lose your house
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Yea, what tha deuce?
I want copyright enfringement or something like that!!
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martypalin
My bad eh, why didn't I read EVERY post on here before making a comment. |
Nice use of the emoticon.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Slash
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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You wanna learn on your own?? Dont read and go play maybe. No offense to Bigspenda the OG poster. (I see your points)
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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This whole thing is confusing me. Register a new account, rip off another posters thread. Paste it in a new forum.
If this is leveling, it must be 9th level. Because no one is getting it.
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Slash
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
This whole thing is confusing me. Register a new account, rip off another posters thread. Paste it in a new forum.
If this is leveling, it must be 9th level. Because no one is getting it.
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Yeah I found it quite silly as well.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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3. Before the beginner hits the 'submit' button he/she actually goes and researches the topic. Wether it be using our search engine, other forums, Poker Books, or any other article.
Would this even make sense? Is this "thinking it through" and figuring it out on your own? Not really, it's looking for advice from a FTR person who was "holding the hand" of someone with the same question as you.
I guess what you're saying is you want them to try and find a situation where their question was already answered. That's fine, but each hand in poker is different, and maybe there's a little difference. Plus, it's so hard to find an exact match to your situation.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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die in a fire
k-tnx g-bai
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
die in a fire
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a grease fire?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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