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The difference between good and great players?

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Toadstool

09-28-2005, 06:46 PM Post subject: The difference between good and great players?

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I have been playing for about 8 months now, and believe I have been a good player for the last 6 months. The thingis, i'm not sure how to progress from a good player to a great player. I can see what the great players see when the analyse hands on this forum, i know pretty much all the poker theory and very rarely give bad beat. I can read hands well and cut off drawing odds etc, all the things needed basically to be a good player. I'm just wondering what is needed to progress, what do great players have that merely good players lack? Personally i dont really think that i have improved much in the last 2 months, despite all the handsi have played - there just doesnt seem to be much else to learn.

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johnny_fish

09-28-2005, 06:59 PM

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I think it's always possible to read opponents better.

jmontis

09-28-2005, 08:22 PM

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easy answer:

post flop play, and adaptation.

someone who plays premium hands and throws in that raggy 78o from time to time may still be able to show a profit with it because he isn't afraid of the "nuts" all the time.

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

Rondavu

09-28-2005, 08:29 PM

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Reads, manipulaion (of image and opponents), precision (knowing exactly how to play each street), experience (instinct).

When you really start to think about what others are thinking of you and what you're doing and thinking, that's when you've made it.

It's a lot of little things. It's not one concrete obvious red flag. It's small improvement in all areas. For many people a lack of balls loses them a ton of money.

I was in a $20 multi table last night at the final table. I had about 2,800 chips. I limped into the small blind to complete the 200. The BB raised me to 750 to go. I have 76 suited and a tight image (important). As a beginner I would never dream of entering this pot, but my image was tight, and I felt I could outplay him if I felt he missed. It had nothing to do with what I had, though it had promise. I called and the flop came out K8Q rainbow. I totally missed. I checked and he bet 400 into a 1500 pot. I check raised him all in for a little over 2,000. he folded, I showed, and he tilted shortly thereafter. This is a situation you may have played differently.

Here's another. later on in the same tourney I caught QJs UTG. I decided to limp it, as the aggression wasn't too overpowering at the table, so if it got raised it's an easy fold. Sure enough I saw a flop without a problem. It ended up being only the BB and myself. It came out 5 6 9. The BB bet 400 into a 900 pot (minimum bet). I called with two overs and a back door flush draw. I caught my Q on the turn. He led out for 1,100 into me. I thought about it and folded because it was a trap hand. He had 56 and had flopped two pair.

It's little things. I'd say the biggest thing that separates a good player from a great player is one word....

EMOTION

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TalentedTom

09-28-2005, 09:35 PM

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if you ever saw the 300/600 limit tables on UB, they call down 5k pots with queen high

Learning to trust your instinct and going the distance with it is the key.

Tom.S

jmontis

09-28-2005, 10:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

if you ever saw the 300/600 limit tables on UB, they call down 5k pots with queen high

Learning to trust your instinct and going the distance with it is the key.

that's a whole different ballgame, you just simply aren't going to make $5k calls in NL with queen high.

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

09-29-2005, 04:49 AM

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KoRnholio

09-29-2005, 05:08 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

Quote:

Originally Posted by TalentedTom

if you ever saw the 300/600 limit tables on UB, they call down 5k pots with queen high

Learning to trust your instinct and going the distance with it is the key.

that's a whole different ballgame, you just simply aren't going to make $5k calls in NL with queen high.

Not to mention that the 300/600 game there is usually heads up... So it's all about reads and pretty much anything goes

JeffreyGB

09-29-2005, 05:16 AM

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I'll agree that balls, postflop play, and reads are all a part of it. Personally, I don't think you can rely strictly on luck and balls. You have to be able to last when the cards don't fall. Finding some way to integrate successful money management is a factor, IMO.

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edudlive

09-29-2005, 05:17 AM

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The difference?

"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." - Socrates

Don't pretend like you know everything, the first...and only step to becoming a great player is knowing that you always have something to learn.

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Trikflow77

09-29-2005, 05:19 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

that doesnt make a great player, just a player that doesnt blow his money. Its like saying stu unger wasnt great because had bad bankroll management.

JeffreyGB

09-29-2005, 05:21 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHTACO

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

that doesnt make a great player, just a player that doesnt blow his money. Its like saying stu unger wasnt great because had bad bankroll management.

I didn't say it made a great player. I said that it would also be a factor.

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edudlive

09-29-2005, 05:21 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

...shed your fear of the value of the chips and you will be a 'great' player before you can say 'Phil Helmuth can kiss my ass'

I've got a new sig.

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biondino

09-29-2005, 11:19 AM

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Rondavu, did you lose your tight image in one fell swoop when you showed that guy your bluff? Obviously it won you a good pot AND took an opponent out of the equation, but I'm curious to know how you think tyhe rest of the table viewed you from then on (and, indeed, how you played after that).

Fnord

09-29-2005, 11:34 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

Ficshman, Cunningham, Matasow, all these guys have the same understanding for the game as you do....they just managed to win a few higher stakes events and their careers were launched just like that.

Never heard of one of them, the other doesn't impress me and the third likes to give away money by playing 50/100 HU NLHE with Spirit Rock when he's not otherwise tilting. Truely people to look up to over the likes of Chip Reese.

The guys truely making bank at poker play as much as they can in as many good games as they can find. They are able to tune out most of the daily noise of swings and collect as their edges come in. People that think and play like Rippy have a habbit of disappearing from the poker scene.

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Miffed22001

09-29-2005, 12:24 PM

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I'd just like to play like a wining poker player
That will do for me
As for getting great? i have no idea, but i assume knowing every play in the book, betting patterns helps as does being able to read you opps cards.
Then i guess you need a good deal of luck.

09-29-2005, 02:39 PM

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BIGandRICH

09-29-2005, 02:58 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

...shed your fear of the value of the chips and you will be a 'great' player before you can say 'Phil Helmuth can kiss my ass'

i used to struggle at .05/.10NL .. now if i sit there i pwn the fuck out of it and laugh at how incredibly low the standard is compared to the games i'm playing now.

reason: as you say ripptyde, fear. I wont hesitate at that level now to throw my chips around like its fun money if the right moment comes along.. At the higher games i cant do it quite the same way yet. But i'm getting there.

too often i see people saying that they put someone on a certain hand, and they have that hand beat.. and yet they fold. ?? Fear.

Quote:

Personally i dont really think that i have improved much in the last 2 months, despite all the handsi have played - there just doesnt seem to be much else to learn.

There is always more to learn, would you be confident to regularly build up a monster stack at $10/$20NL the way Hallingol and Joker do? The week i can play 5000 hands, and honestly say i didnt make any errors/misreads, then i'll call myself a great player.

what stakes are you at toadstool?

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Fnord

09-29-2005, 05:51 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGandRICH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

...shed your fear of the value of the chips and you will be a 'great' player before you can say 'Phil Helmuth can kiss my ass'

reason: as you say ripptyde, fear. I wont hesitate at that level now to throw my chips around like its fun money if the right moment comes along.. At the higher games i cant do it quite the same way yet. But i'm getting there.

too often i see people saying that they put someone on a certain hand, and they have that hand beat.. and yet they fold. ?? Fear.

I prefer the term discipline, and it's a two way street. Consider: FTR Vegas single re-buy tourney, Xianti twidles with some chips UTG and finally raises for something innocent like 3x after clearly thinking about it for 3 or 4 seconds. Folded to me and I muck AQo from the SB because I'm certain enough I'm either flipping a coin or dominated out of position. Too many players just can't lay it down when they know they're beat often enough that they can't call because of an irrational fear of laying down the better hand.

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Fnord

09-29-2005, 05:57 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

'people that think and play like Rippy have a habit of disappearing from the poker scene' ???

wtf Fnord

Players "looking for the big score", playing too many hands too aggressivly, not keeping detailed records (perhaps even going so far as to mock those that do), letting the maddening swings of the game effect their play, playing outside their roll, fail to recognise a bad game or when to leave a game gone bad, take on all commers, etc. tend to shine for a while then disappear. Inevitably variance, tilt and regular opponents adjusting to their play probably does them in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Seidel

Throughout my years of playing tournaments, I’ve been fooled many times, thinking, “Wow, this guy must be playing great, he is one of the top players,” and two years later he has disappeared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

(spare the 'gimme my fuckin money bitch' comments to all those I owe)

For all the ugly things I said in this thread, I said them because I believe them to be true and wish you the best Marty.

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Toadstool

09-29-2005, 08:47 PM

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I've played from $25NL to $200NL, what i play depends on how well I feel I am playing at the time, and other things such as boredom and impatience come into it, I was thinking about it today and I think thats it boils down to how disciplined you can be and how you handle the emotional swings. Many times i will call down with TPTK just because I am curious to see whether my read was right, a huge leak in my game, I know but I only do this at $25NL, sometimes i'll play 4 tables of $25 for 2 hours not pick up a single hand, get frustrated about how little money I am making think to myself "in two hours ive made what i could make in one blind steal at a $200NL game, and so just cruise up to there and play with scared money." I get impatient at the 25NL as i have discovered bluffing isnt profitable and you NEED cards at that level, and I can go card dead for ages and you get bored/frustrated. I then head up to 200NL and i won't be playing my A game as i just dont want to risk pushing over somebody for 1/4 of my bankroll on what i "think" is a bluff, im playing with scared money there. Although i have broken even at 200NL, I can't play my best there until I have the right mental state and bankroll to try it.

Rondavu

09-30-2005, 02:01 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

It didn't ruin my image to make one move. People know better than that. A couple of them knew what I was doing and disregarded the technique. I showed my hand to tilt that one guy because the pot was large enough to give either of us sealegs to sail with. When you steal a crucial large pot late in a multi table, and then let them know it was theirs for the taking, it can psychologically damage an opponent.

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SmackinYaUp

10-01-2005, 06:39 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

All the 'greats' are no better than the average Joe they are just playing higher stakes.

I think this may be partially true for those average players who know enough to beat the fish that wander into a big game, but there is a difference between good and great players.

Look at hallingol and mahatma for an easy example that most of us are familiary with. Something makes them better than good.

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Zidane18

10-01-2005, 06:55 PM

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someone who can fold an overpair to top set

SmackinYaUp

10-01-2005, 11:09 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane18

someone who can fold an overpair to top set

someone who can fold an overpair to bottom set?

or you can be like me today and still call a 25xBB river bet on a straight and flush board holding nothing more than a set of jacks.

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TalentedTom

10-02-2005, 12:32 AM

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The best online players and players who run the casinos play for 10+ hours per session. They just play so many more hands than any of us. They optimize their game to a point where most of the plays they make are winning plays, and they play long enough to balance out any bad luck. I play for only maybe 2 hours a day, I do not have any more time :/ Being able to maintain composure for a very long time is very difficult and may take a VERY long time to develop. I don't think I will become a great player any time soon because I don't have the time, but I feel that eventually I may break through. I have won two $10 MTT's each with ~500 people, but I did it without making any amazing reads or anything, just playing fundamentally tight, and picking my spots. If that was a $100 MTT, I probably could not achieve the same result because the players are smart enough to catch on

My point - Good players have amazing discpline and are always constantly aware of what is going on. I think a lot of players have the potential to become good, you don't need to be a math genius or have a PHD in phcychology but you need to take what you are doing very seriously and have a desire. Someone like me who just plays two hours a day will not make that level any time soon.

Tom.S

jmontis

10-02-2005, 03:35 AM

#27 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

Launching a 'pro' career is only one big buy in tourney away and dont you forget it my friend....life is not a rehearsal. Never be a 'grinder'......we ALL have 'the game'.....its just a question of balls with the buy in and the luck of the cards when it counts

what you said about Michael Gracz is so true, he even admitted in an interview that he was basically "in the right place at the right time" for 3 of his big tournament wins this past year.

When James Vogl took down 1st at a $2500 WSOP main event in 2004, a 24 year old Backgammon player who had only played Hold'em maybe 2 years, he said something like "I feel like I don't even deserve this, there were so many other great players like David Chu, Phil ivey, and Howard Lederer in this tourney"

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

kdm3nac3

10-02-2005, 05:44 AM

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its easy to learn but hard to perfect.

It's very hard to define the line between bad/good players because I see "bad" players beat "good" players all the time.

IMO, if your consistent at winning then you are a good player.

I h8 online poker.

DaNutsInYoEye

10-02-2005, 07:48 AM

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The question isn't if this or that particular player is great. It's what differentiates a great player from someone that is simply good.

I think that what Ripptyde is saying along the right track. Reading books and essays and discussing hands are excellent ways to become a better player, but once you get to a certain level pretty much everyone has the same knowledge. Anyone with access to the internet can learn basically everything there is to know about pot odds, game theory, and every other aspect of poker.

I think that what makes great players great goes beyond the mechanics of the game. I think everyone one of us has experienced being "in the zone." Those particular tournaments we won or those ring session where we just totally killed it. We were focused. We were confident. Our reads were dead on. We knew exactly when to apply pressure and when to back off. Why can't we play like that all the time? We have shown the capability to do it, yet most of the time we play we aren't at that level. IMO the great players are the ones that play like that every time they sit down and if they aren't then they have the capabilty to recognize it and walk away until they are.

Like Ripptyde said, great players are confident. They have the "balls" to make moves when they need to. Much of this is because of experience. They have played so many hands against so many players that they readily recognize certain situations and know the best plan of attack (or retreat). As Ripptyde mentioned, part of this is also because of their bankroll. They have the ability to look past the monetary value of a poker chip. Ripptyde is right that people like Fnord are sometimes held back because we place too much emphasis on the money involved. No offense Fnord, but every time I think of you playing I think of Knish from Rounder's grinding it out. There is nothing wrong with that and I myself am often the same way. If I was deriving my entire income from poker as you once were, I know I would be exactly the same way. There is no doubt you can be highly successful at this as many people have shown, but at the same time it can hinder your progression as a poker player. Even the elite players take risks sometimes. They know it's essential to improving their play. If you're going to be a great player then you're going to have to play outside of your comfort zone from time to time. The more you do it then the better prepared you are.

What Ripptyde's approach is lacking though is discipline. We all know you're a good player Rippy, but you have a bad habit of losing your focus, taking too many chances, and then subsequently pissing away your winnings. It's not a personal attack, just an honest critique. To be a great player you have to have discipline. Great players are patient. They can wait for the best opportunities to put their money in. They can make the laydowns others can't. Their discipline goes beyond the actual playing of cards as well. It goes back to what Fnord was saying. Great players also exhbit good bankroll management. They know the importance of game selection. They play focused and relaxed and have the ability to recognize when they aren't. They know their limitations and are honest with themselves.

I'm not trying to be a moderator bewteen Fnord and Rippy. I respect them both and have learned a great deal from them. I think they both have very valid points, but individually they are lacking. There has to be an appropriate balance between the two.

When you get right down to it though, being a great player has little/nothing to do with the actual game and everything to do with experience and attitude.

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michael1123

10-04-2005, 08:08 AM

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I'd say a large part of the difference is better play in marginal situations. Making a tough laydown to save your stack, making a tough call to win a huge pot, making a well timed effective bluff into a large pot when most people wouldn't risk it, etc. Within these key moments, if a player is able to make the correct play significantly more often than the good players, I'd say that would be the difference that makes them great.

Also, I'd say extracting the most possible value out with winning hands, and risking the smallest amount necessary on bluffs. Good but not great players will often scare out lesser hands when they have it, and risk too much of their stack when they bluff.

Most of the things in this thread I'd say more address what makes a player a good player, and not the difference between the good players and the elite players.

But I'm also of the opinion that no one on this board is truly an elite player. There's a world of difference between us and the Phil Ivey's of the world. Anyone that truly believes that the difference is just bankroll related is delusional, in my opinion. There's a reason that the elite players were able to build and sustain those bankrolls over years and years of play.

10-04-2005, 08:13 AM

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10-04-2005, 08:23 AM

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Checkways

10-04-2005, 08:43 AM

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I don't understand why you can't be a grinder and still shoot for the big games? Sure it takes the grinder longer to get there, but they will eventually do it if they're good. Many of the pro players you see on TV are grinders. Actually, almost all of them are. It took some of them at least a decade to get to the big games but they did.

You can't tell me that Chip Reese, Harmon, Greenstein, etc aren't grinders. They play a $4k/8k game where their edge is small if not non exsistent. I'm sure that they average way less BBs per hour than we do. If they weren't grinders, you wouldn't see them every freakin' day at the Bellagio giving $1 tips to the dealers after pulling in a $100,000 pot.

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10-04-2005, 08:50 AM

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What makes a great player?

Well, my definition of a great player is experience and winning. If you've been making more than $100,000 a year for at least 5 years, I'd say you're a great player.

A great player needs not be a celebrity. There are middle aged Vietnamese women at Commerce that routinely have 20 grand in chips sitting in front of them everyday. You've never seen them and they'll probably never be on TV.

So how many great players are on this board? None probably. I don't know, maybe a few are around.

But there sure are a hell of a lot of good players at FTR that just need a little time to become great. I'm hoping to become one eventually.

michael1123

10-04-2005, 10:54 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

Michael I agree with you about Phil Ivey. I didn't mean to suggest that any player with a big bankroll is as good as he is. What I meant was that there is a fine line. You managed to make it deeper than he did in the WSOP and that speaks volumes for your ability.

Haha, actually, I didn't. Ivey went very deep, and finished like 15th or something. But Ivey, Matusow, Juanda, and Raymer were the only big name players that outlasted me, so I get the point.

I'm just saying that there's a lot more to it than the devaluation of money. You're correct that that is a vital attribute of any high stakes player, but there's a lot more to it than that, and that's not the only thing that seperates the best from the good players.

michael1123

10-04-2005, 11:10 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkways

That's really not accurate. Greenstein talks about in his book about how he'd regularly buy into any good game, as long as he had the money to do so, irregardless of BR management rules. As long as the game was soft and playing would be plus EV for him, he'd play in a game, even if he could only afford one buyin.

To me, a "grinder" is someone that regularly plays one level and grinds out a regular income, typically just enough to live off of. They don't have aspirations of moving up to higher limits, they're just content to grind out what they make, without taking any risks. This wouldn't describe anyone that's made it big in the world of poker, at least in terms of how they were before they really made it.

If this does accurately describe anyone in the big game, that's only because there is no other games at that buyin, and no higher stake games out there. They've already came as far as they can, for the time being. If better and higher stake games were available though, you can bet that they'd be looking to play in them.

The more I think about it, the more wrong I think you are. The fact that they're at the highest possible stakes that you can play at shows how damn motivated they were to constantly succeed at higher and higher stakes, and that they were never content to grind it out at one level for the rest of their lives. Of course they avoided going broke by limiting the chances they took, but they never just settled for making $10 an hour ... or $100 an hour ... or even $1000 an hour ... They were constantly looking to build their BR up enough to move up to higher and higher limits.

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10-04-2005, 11:50 AM

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This thread started as a question: what is the difference between good and excellent players. For what I have heard the differences are making good laydowns and good reads and picking your spots. Michael already mentioned this.

The reason I wanted to respond to this thread is that I am not proud how this conversation turned. Some of our oldest and most respected contributors started to pick each other with a way they shouldnt have. I like most of the people here dont want to take sides because they both seem to think so extreme. I personally dont think that succeeding is just a question of a bankroll, it is obvious that the games get tougher when the stakes get higher, I have unfortunately seen that myself. I am a consistant winner in nl100 and even in nl200 but I dont beat the game at nl400. But I also feel that you should take some chances, not playing with half your BR all the time but eventually you might want to play stakes over the normal BR standards if you really have confidence in your game or you have found a perticularly soft game. I really boosted my poker career only after playing 3-4 months when I managed to win over $6k in a MTT. The buy-in was a bit over my BR but I had got my first FT the day before and there was some overlay and I decided to give it a shot.

Eventually, we all decide to how to live our lives or how we deal with our poker career. Some take it safe, some like to live dangerously. I personally walk the middle path. I have noticed that it suits me best. We should all just learn from our mistakes and give ourselves a change to succeed and those of us that have the skill, guts, discipline, will to work hard and luck may eventually get there.

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

10-04-2005, 05:09 PM

#38 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

Les_Worm

10-04-2005, 07:09 PM

#39 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

What seperates great poker players from average poker player? TJ. Cloutier has been asked that a million times. See what he has to say.....

TJ CardPlayer Article

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

10-05-2005, 11:03 PM

#40 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

Fnord

10-06-2005, 12:09 AM

#41 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

PI: It seems simple until you start losing. People have different ways that they go about making money. I’m not the best at managing money. If I’ve got the money to play, I’m gonna play

http://www.playwinningpoker.com/poke...ers/phil-ivey/

Let's put that comment in perspective...

Quote:

I believe the main reason for Phil's success is what he muttered under his breath at a table a few years later as someone told him how great a player he was. He said: "I don't think I'm that good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

3 MTT wins and I have nothing to show for it.

Zero MTT wins and I have plenty to show for my poker play. I have cashed every month (except last month where one losing session put me down about -$100 net for the month), play better and have fun. You keep talking up "taking big shots." Well, at least 4 of your big shots came in and you still owe people money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

#1 ranked player on pocketfives? I'm going to bust him with rags. [proceeds to push every hand pre-flop, BRSavage calls with A5o] HOW THE HELL DOES HE CALL THAT?!?!?

Clearly top level thinking...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

It wouldn't surpise me one bit to see you playing 1/2 limit at Commerce with the senior citizens nursing your stack of $1.00 chips folding A/Q pre flop to a 2 dollar raise

I play 9/18 over there now, thank you (recently put in my 3rd biggest daily loss and felt pretty good about it.) Prior to that I mostly played 4/8 because the bigger games in Washington just aren't very good. Particularly for someone like me who doesn't have a lot of social engineering talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

10-06-2005, 04:15 AM

#42 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

Humphrind

10-06-2005, 04:45 AM

#43 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Seems that there is a difference that isn't being distinguished between "great player" "professional player" and "famous player"

I'd put Dutch Boyd in the "famous player" category. He does well, but we know him because he was out-spoken in the 03 WSOP main event, and we followed him to his one and only apperance in the 04 Razz final table. After seeing some stuff about rakefree.com, I can say that he has a good business sense. But a gret player? No.

Anyone can be a professional. All you have to do is not have another job. Hell, my sister (housewife and mother) played a home game a couple months ago and left with a profit. Technically, she's a professional poker player with her only income from poker.

A great player is one who can spot the small edges he has. Anyone can win a hand with the nuts. How many times have you lost with TPTK? Trips against higher trips? A straight against a flush? Honestly, that is why a good player is not a great player. The players who can spot these and drop the hands, spot the SMALL advantages he has and push those are the truely profitable players. The ones who will earn a living for years to come.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

trACE

10-06-2005, 08:55 AM

#44 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Southern California

Posts: 38

I don't know you, just heard about you. But, welcome back Rippy.

Nothing's changed, table's are still as nasty as ever - as well as the player's as you can see. Hope you're prepped and ready to go!

Again, welcome back... I know a few that are quite pleased.

Trace

<boost> women are so utterly inferior to men..
what makes them think they can successfully play poker?
you have to think to play poker..
kthxgg
<trACE> hmm
my pokerdb stats vs. yours
HAH!
kthxggtyfp
<dwarfman> boost
got
owned.

10-06-2005, 09:52 AM

#45 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

omg trace made a post
let's celebrate

wolfofruby

10-06-2005, 10:14 AM Post subject: Re: The difference between good and great players?

#46 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toadstool

- there just doesnt seem to be much else to learn.

doesn't seem, but there's a lot. With all your respect, how many books did you read in 8 months ? 5 ? 6 ? Do you think that's enough to know EVERYTHING ?
I m not a great player. I m not sure i 'm even a good one but i'm learning every day.
sklansky says in his book " holdem poker for advanced player " that you need a life time to master Holdem.

Sure, all the knowledge is not good enough to be crushing all the big tournaments. Some players have something that can't be teach.

trACE

10-06-2005, 12:34 PM

#47 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Southern California

Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

omg trace made a post
let's celebrate

lol! shuttup io! once in a great while im known to make an appearance and grace u lot with my lovely presence :P *psyche* and heck id post more if people responded more! (minus the 'donk' name calling responses damnit!)

Trace

Les_Worm

10-06-2005, 02:17 PM Post subject: Re: The difference between good and great players?

#48 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfofruby

With all your respect, how many books did you read in 8 months ? 5 ? 6 ? Do you think that's enough to know EVERYTHING ?

The number of books you have read doesn't mean shit.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

10-06-2005, 02:35 PM

#49 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

{This post has been removed}

dthorne04

10-06-2005, 04:26 PM

#50 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: hi

Posts: 478

Quote:

Originally Posted by -trACE-

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

omg trace made a post
let's celebrate

Donk.

Oh, and hey Ripp, what's up.

derp

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