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Did I play this hand right?

  
 
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spud_gun
Old 02-24-2009, 07:37 PM     Post subject: Did I play this hand right? #1 (permalink)  

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spud_gun
PokerStars Game #25308024864: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/02/24 19:24:25 GMT [2009/02/24 14:24:25 ET]
el036: posts big blind $0.05
jjppoo: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to spud_gun [Ks Qh]
CrazyBitos: folds
Streydan: raises $0.15 to $0.20
spud_gun: calls $0.20
Fooze666: folds
PotRaise: folds
G-Sport-S04: folds
Squallh: folds
el036: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kh 2c 7c]
Streydan: bets $0.30
spud_gun: raises $0.50 to $0.80
Streydan: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [Kh 2c 7c] [Qd]
Streydan: checks
spud_gun: bets $2
Streydan: raises $2.15 to $4.15
spud_gun: raises $0.79 to $4.94 and is all-in
Streydan: calls $0.02 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.77) returned to spud_gun

About 20 hands in, had him down as loose aggressive didn't feel like he'd hit a set, I guess the question is, was the reraise the right move in that spot?
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Carroters
Old 02-24-2009, 07:45 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Fold pre flop, you're way behind an utg opening range and there's players still to act.

I'd just call the flop - you're only going to get action from hands that beat you when you raise here. If you really want to raise, make the raise bigger so you're not laying him awesome odds to draw to a flush etc.

Turn is standrad and looks like you may have sucked out on AK. The problem with your flop raise is that if he 3 bets, you are in a terrible spot and on non Q turns you're oop with a marginal hand and an inflated pot with no idea where you are. Just call flop in position and evaluate the turn. You're mini raise on the flop is pointless imo.

 
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Illfavor
Old 02-24-2009, 07:58 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Fold pre flop, you're way behind an utg opening range and there's players still to act.

I'd just call the flop - you're only going to get action from hands that beat you when you raise here. If you really want to raise, make the raise bigger so you're not laying him awesome odds to draw to a flush etc.

Turn is standrad and looks like you may have sucked out on AK. The problem with your flop raise is that if he 3 bets, you are in a terrible spot and on non Q turns you're oop with a marginal hand and an inflated pot with no idea where you are. Just call flop in position and evaluate the turn. You're mini raise on the flop is pointless imo.
This.

The point about not raising in WA/WB situations is extremely important. If they're bluffing, they're drawing slim. So let them bluff! A raise makes them less likely to keep firing (and if they do you're more likely WB).
Ich grolle nicht...
 
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TAGurit
Old 02-24-2009, 08:50 PM #4 (permalink)  

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im with the 2 posts above. ur way behind until the suck out with the queen. i don't really mind the raise on the turn tho.
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AFchung
Old 02-24-2009, 09:18 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAGurit
im with the 2 posts above. ur way behind until the suck out with the queen. i don't really mind the raise on the turn tho.
he didn't necessarly get sucked out on, it could've easily been KK/QQ who beat him
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dev
Old 02-24-2009, 09:19 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I don't know that this is exactly a WA/WB situation.

You can play this preflop if you really think the guy is raising UTG with garbage. I don't think 20 hands is enough to get that kind of a read. Assuming we have that kind of a read, we generally want to raise to isolate, and KQ is borderline.

On the flop, we're really not strong enough to be charging the flush draw yet. We can definitely call and see the turn. If it's a blank and he checks we'll be betting to charge a flush draw to see the river. Very few V's can check a better hand than us there. Since we hit the turn so hard, we're looking to get the money in ASAP.

So preflop is questionable, flop is questionable, turn is good. What was your reasoning for raising the flop? I can understand if the guy was cbetting every flop, but after 20 hands how many flops could he have seen?
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spud_gun
Old 02-25-2009, 06:21 PM #7 (permalink)  

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I raised the flop to try and drive the guy out, charging the flush draw.

Then when I hit the turn as well I thought there was no point trying to hide the fact it'd hit me hard, add to that the flush draw again.
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dev
Old 02-26-2009, 04:11 AM #8 (permalink)  
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The phrase "drive the guy out" made me think of this:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ld-t25206.html
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TAGurit
Old 02-26-2009, 08:56 PM #9 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAGurit
im with the 2 posts above. ur way behind until the suck out with the queen. i don't really mind the raise on the turn tho.
he didn't necessarly get sucked out on, it could've easily been KK/QQ who beat him
...true
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ColdDecked
Old 02-26-2009, 09:11 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 If you have him down as a loose aggressive player and seen him bet with air, you could just call the flop and let him hang himself.

Flop: A raise on the flop opens up the betting again, and if he has AK, he would've probably stuck in a reraise, which you'd have to fold to and lose your chance of getting lucky. IMO, it'd be better to just called the flop here and re-evaluate the turn. If a club comes on the turn and he's still betting, you can consider folding or put in a small to represent the flush. Even if he calls the raise on the turn, it'd be pretty hard to bet the river (unless he has the goods), in which case you can check behind.

Turn: Turn is fine, as others have mentioned, you probably sucked out on AK.
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RML604
Old 02-27-2009, 01:09 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spud_gun
I raised the flop to try and drive the guy out, charging the flush draw.

Then when I hit the turn as well I thought there was no point trying to hide the fact it'd hit me hard, add to that the flush draw again.
You don't want to drive him out, you just want to give him the wrong price to chase his draw but hope he chases anyway. When you bet so big that you force your opponent to fold his draw, all you've done is help your opponent make the right decision.

Instead, you want to figure out the maximum to bet that will still get called by villain. Of course, villain won't always be on a draw here, but if villain is on a draw, you don't want him to fold.
 
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youngunpoker
Old 02-27-2009, 02:59 AM #12 (permalink)  

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Here is an intresting spot in which both arguments are true, but neither can be accomplished without the others failure.
Side #1 Villian has a draw and you try to raise enough for the value to be favorable for yourself, which i thought you could have raised slightly more maybe to $1.00 or so. This would create a positive value for yourself and he would be in a unfavorable situation,
However
Side #2 Villian has A-K, you raise the action to over 1/2 the pot, he then reraises and you are faced with a decision which could have been prevented if you had not raised his bet. You then fold (maybe) and you never see the Q and possibly a bigger pot.

The other option would have been to just call his bet, which puts him in the driving seat for the rest of the hand. After the turn he would fire out a larger bet(probably) and then you could then force the action by raising enough for the odds to be in your own favor, and if he has A-K you're in prefect position to double up.

I probably would have gone with option 2 in the moment. But as I am typing this post I realize option 3 would be the most profitable in most cases,(this one obviously turned out great for you).
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