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bencathers
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08-02-2005, 07:57 AM
Post subject: Detecting a set
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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Since almost everyone on FTR agrees that detecting a set is one of the hardest things to do, does anyone have any tips on it? When someone is holding a set, how do their betting patterns follow?
Do they lead out or re-raise on a draw heavy board? Do they slowplay on rainbow non drawing boards. Do they bet big on the river if being bet in to? (disguising it as a broken draw).
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realgenius
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 152
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well when I have a set, I'm usually checking the flop, hoping to get someone to bet into me. Then I'll put a good bet out there on the turn. And a huge bet on the river. Assuming no one is betting into me. If someone bets into me, I'll check raise on the river.
I think you can tell if someone flopped a set, by how they bet on the turn. If a rag comes on the turn and you get a big bet, he's got a set. I think most people check the flop and bet the turn. They bet the turn in fear of not getting paid for having a set, they check the flop hoping someone bets into them.
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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I almost always lead out with my sets. One of the rewards of playing really aggressively is that when you make big hands like flopping a set, you get paid off much more with them. This is especially nice when someone holds Ax and an ace comes out with your set-card. The only exception is when i know (or am almost certain) i'll get the opportunity to check-raise, from someone who has position on me who raised pre flop and i have seen them represent the flop almost every other time they have come in with a PFR.
I don't think i ever really put someone on a set with any degree of certainty. At least not online anyway. Almost definitely not enough to lay down something like top two pair. If you make a big hand like top two, and someone has you on 4 outs cuz they made a set...you're probably paying them off. At the limits i play at least, a set looks like just about anything else. Could be TPTK for all I know, most of the time. Especially if it's an aggressive lpayer.
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Checkways
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08-02-2005, 04:14 PM
Post subject: Re: Detecting a set
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#4 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
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For me, these are the two best ways of knowing. First off, how they played their last set. Some people play them super fast, others will slow slowplay them. Many will check/call the flop, raise the turn.
It also depends on the board. A rag on the turn plus a raise usually means a flopped set. If you have AK and the flop is K93 and then the turn is a 4 and you get check raised you are beat. They know what you have so why would they check raise you unless they had you beat? They're counting on the fact that you won't fold. If someone were playing K9 they usually would have raised the flop, so you have to put them on a set.
One time, I checked the big blind with Q9. Flop came Q93. There was a bet, I raised, and a tight player moved all in. I knew I was beat. He couldn't have AQ or a big pp, because he would have raised preflop. He wouldn't play Q3, or Q9 in his position. Since I was already looking at half the Qs and 9s, I put him on pocket 3's. That's what he showed.
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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I don’t think you will find any rules to detect a set because there are just too many ways to play them. I sometimes bet out like I hit a split pair. I sometimes check and let someone else bet for me. Some people will jam the pot looking like two pair. It all depends on the board and the players at the table. There are too many variables.
Id say the best way is to raise them up and hope they come over the top of you. Paying for info is the best way to find out what they have.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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aislephive
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Downswinging holla!
Posts: 1,523
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Well it is a tough thing to detect. The best way to put them on a set is to see what they did pre flop. If they limped in and a couple low cards come and they come out betting hard then you can be pretty sure they flopped a set. Somebody already made one good point, to see how they played their last set. Of course that is a moot point if you're playing online against a stranger.
If you're truly unsure, betting out is a way to get some informating, a nice sized bet will prevent you from potentially losing your whole stack. If somebody comes over the top on your raise then you muck your hand unless it's a known bluffer or an overly aggressive player.
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BobbySalami
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Limbo
Posts: 433
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I believe you have to have a pretty strong read on the player....I dont believe you can out of the blue detect a set when facing an unknown opponent based on betting patterns alone....you need quite a bit of information.
How do they play certain hands depending on position.....etc, etc
I know that I always play me sets very fast for deceptive purposes....too many people believe that betting the flop with a monster doesnt make sense....and sometimes you can get paid off huge because of this....so it all depends on the opp. solely.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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for the most part, you need to know the players your playing against really well ... in my home game i can detect the set quite often because a few of my friends play their sets quite strongly on the flop... most of the time they are intimidated by me, so they usually just check and fold when i'm aggressive in a pot, but when they come over the top of me, i've been noticing they have sets the majority of the time and/or straight
but its not impossible to detect straights on a stranger, i think getting to that level is going to take some time.. im sure alot of the pro's like danny negs and so fourth can sniff one out the majority of the time.
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{This post has been removed}
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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I agree here. When I'm not in position, I have a very hard time reading hands. Especially sets.
So many hands flat-call. Flush/straight draws, TP middle kicker, sets. But I just keep betting. You can bet your way out of anything. 
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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It obviously depends on the player, but I think there are some patterns that you can expect from a random opponent. Check-raising a huge flop bet after calling a preflop raise is a pretty obvious sign. Check-calling on a rainbow flop, then check-raising when no apparent straight card comes. Betting, then reraising a raise from a preflop raiser (this is somewhat less common, since most players at lower and middle limits slow-play sets almost habitually). Pretty much any line of betting that involves slow-playing by a player who limped in, then called a raise preflop indicates a set.
My personal favorite way of playing a set is betting, calling a raise, and then check-raising on the turn. It's nearly impossible for the other player to put you on a set until the pot is already huge (at which point the opponent may start to feel committed to the hand), and he's almost obligated to bet big on the turn since in general you could have easily been semi-bluffing with a draw on the flop.
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
It obviously depends on the player, but I think there are some patterns that you can expect from a random opponent. Check-raising a huge flop bet after calling a preflop raise is a pretty obvious sign. Check-calling on a rainbow flop, then check-raising when no apparent straight card comes. Betting, then reraising a raise from a preflop raiser (this is somewhat less common, since most players at lower and middle limits slow-play sets almost habitually). Pretty much any line of betting that involves slow-playing by a player who limped in, then called a raise preflop indicates a set.
My personal favorite way of playing a set is betting, calling a raise, and then check-raising on the turn. It's nearly impossible for the other player to put you on a set until the pot is already huge (at which point the opponent may start to feel committed to the hand), and he's almost obligated to bet big on the turn since in general you could have easily been semi-bluffing with a draw on the flop.
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What do you do when the guy flat calls your flop bet though? Do you still check raise him on the turn, or lead out?
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online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
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straight167
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 62
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
a set can be fairly easy to read if you are betting top pair/top kicker and your opponent slams in a huge reraise.
Ex: I was playing a tournament at Commerce last year and raised it up with A/ Js....2 callers....flop is 6/J/9 and I lead out with a pot sized bet....one fold and the next player goes all in. Not rocket science to see that I was up against a set
The really tough read is when you have someone that slow plays a set on you. That will always be one of the most difficult reads to make for players of all levels. It also speaks volumes for the adage 'never bet the ranch on top pair' |
what if he was bluffin? lol
Flopping a set and how to play one really depend on the position. If IM UTG, regardless of the flop I would bet out a litte bit. Hopefully someone with TPTK or high PP will overbet. If im late in position, I will just call someones bet. If no one bets, I would probably bet out. Slow playing sets IS a tell that you have sets....think about it. You flop a set...then all of sudden, there is a flush possiblity...straight possiblity. what do you with the set? you would probably jam the pot or PUSH and this would really make it look obvious that you have a set.
never slow play sets. Betting just the right amount will trap your opponents.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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seems I run into a lot of donks who check-min-raise their sets ..
- sed
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Both of these sets of rules overlap somewhat in both arenas of play.
Higher stakes 6-max:
At higher stakes play its very hard to detect a set, if not impossible. Most of the time I find myself paying sets off. A few tip-offs for sets though:
1. Raising on a drawless board to try to pump the pot up.
2. Overbetting on a drawless board.
On boards with draws, your pretty much paying off a set, theres not much you can do about it. Your best chance to lay down to a set is on a drawless board, where they seem to go out on a limb and put lots of extra money in the pot for no good reason other than to get you to pay them off.
Higher stakes 10-max:
Big raises on the flop and turn out of position are generally good indicators of sets. Particularly turn raises. If you have position when the villain raises you, they probabably have a set, since you can simply call and they will be forced to continue betting, so its very likely they have the goods. Raises with position are harder to guess at. Remember the better position someone has, the more deceptive they can afford to play.
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