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Iconoclastic
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03-27-2006, 10:02 PM
Post subject: denying odds to two opponents
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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So say normally if you have one opponent and you know he has a flush draw, you would bet to deny them implied odds, and you would bet a certain amount. But what if there were two opponents, say one with a 6 out straight draw and the other with a flush draw. Do I bet the same amount as if there were only one opponent with a flush draw because I will still give him bad odds and even worse odds for the 6 outer, or do I bet to deny the congregate implied odds amount, which is somewhere around 34% for EITHER of them to outdraw you on the next street?
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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The second caller is going to be getting much better odds after the first caller, but there's not a lot you can do about it.
If you *knew* they were drawing, you could overbet it, but you'd probably elicit folds. You really want the drawing hands in the pot with poor odds.
I'm generally happy with 3/4 or full pot.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I up it to a pot bet with more than one opponent in the hand.
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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My question is more of a mathematical one than whether you want them to stay in the hand or not. Assuming that one does want them to give them poor odds, do I calculate it from MY point of view, which means both of them added, or my opponents, which ever has the higher chance of outdrawing me?
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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From a mathematical point of view, giving the "best draw chaser" (which here would be the flush draw with 9 outs) bad pot odds is enough, you don't need to congregate. The only thing to remember, however, is that if one of them decides to chase anyway, this gives the other guy better pot odds too. So this does justify pushing in more in practice.
The thing is, this can't really be solved mathematically all that easily since it is close to "game theory". Ie, does each of your opp's do what is best for them alone, which would be to drop out, or do they make a more communal effort, ie if both chase despite their individual bad pot odds, their pot odds suddenly increase.
So since this is not just math, but math+games theory.. you will need to congregate if you're afraid they're both gonna chase.. even though just giving the one with the best odds bad pot odds should suffice to scare off both.
(and yeah, it's pot odds you're talking about.. implied odds are what you would pay them off if their draw hits.)
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Quote:
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(and yeah, it's pot odds you're talking about.. implied odds are what you would pay them off if their draw hits.)
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I was just about to point that out. Also, to be super-nitpicky, isn't what you pay them off if their draw hits reverse implied odds?
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