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EasyT
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02-05-2005, 08:00 PM
Post subject: Defending the Blinds
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Perhaps this topic has already been discussed somewhere at length. If so just direct me.
I've heard of 'Defending Your Blind' as a general concept, but am not sure I really grasp it.
When you're in the blind, you already have some money at stake in the pot, and do not want someone in late position to steal that money, that much I understand. But if someone in EPosition raises, even a little, and gets two other callers, should you really relax your starting requirements at all? I'm talking about a ring game mostly. You're going to be out of posion through the rest of the hand, and I don't like to get too involved from EP without a premium hand.
In a tournament where the blinds have increased to a substantial amount, defending it makes more sense, especially against a button raise.
I'd like to hear your imput on the CONCEPT of defending your blind, and if Big/Little makes a difference.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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I'll almost never defend SB without a hand that I'd normally at least limp with. BB is slightly more likely, but even still, if there are a number of callers and I don't have a decent hand my pot equity isn't enough to make me want to put in more.
All of the above depends on and varies according to my read on the players that raised/called too.
- Jeffrey
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Fortune 500
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02-05-2005, 10:40 PM
Post subject: Re: Defending the Blinds
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#3 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bluffalupagus
Posts: 1,261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
Perhaps this topic has already been discussed somewhere at length. If so just direct me.
I've heard of 'Defending Your Blind' as a general concept, but am not sure I really grasp it.
When you're in the blind, you already have some money at stake in the pot, and do not want someone in late position to steal that money, that much I understand. But if someone in EPosition raises, even a little, and gets two other callers, should you really relax your starting requirements at all? I'm talking about a ring game mostly. You're going to be out of posion through the rest of the hand, and I don't like to get too involved from EP without a premium hand.
In a tournament where the blinds have increased to a substantial amount, defending it makes more sense, especially against a button raise.
I'd like to hear your imput on the CONCEPT of defending your blind, and if Big/Little makes a difference.
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Don't be afraid to sacrifice your blind, but don't be a wuss about it either. If the raise comes from early position, and you don't have a legitimate hand, give it up. People require bigger hands to raise with, so it's less likely to be a steal. When you get to the Cutoff and Buttons, and no one's raised yet, there's a fair chance they're stealing. You've really gotta trust your instincts on it. The tighter or more passive the player, the less likely it is. If you've got any kind of hand and suspect a steal, you can reraise. It'll make them think twice about doing it again.
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Thanks for your replies. I think that I was right in line with your thinking about the blinds. I don't put too much value on them unless the raise smells like a steal.
Does anyone know why some people always defend their blinds, calling rasies with very marginal hands? Then they usually either attempt a buy on the flop or just fold to the first bet anyway. This seems like a pretty common pattern at table's I've played online.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i always considered blind defense something you do only when someone in LP or SB raises to steal the blinds. ideally you want to get HU with the thief and outflop him/outplay him postflop. you only do it because it's often a cointoss who will hit the flop and your pot odds are favorable HU.
if the pot is multiway, i'm not defending the blinds without a legitimately strong hand or some kind of weird draw that's getting really good pot odds.
ChezJ
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EasyT
Does anyone know why some people always defend their blinds, calling rasies with very marginal hands? Then they usually either attempt a buy on the flop or just fold to the first bet anyway. This seems like a pretty common pattern at table's I've played online.
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Because they are poor players who want to give the rest of us their money. Very nice of them 
- Jeffrey
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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my idea with blinds is, if someone steals your blinds once, shame on him, if he steals them twice, shame on you.
the other day, guy always raised when he was on the button and i was BB. 15 person sng, 10+1. He did it twice i think, after which i reraised him 3x with a so-so hand and he folded.
Learned valuable info from it too. later on, i had 35, raised to 300. he called. flop came 468, he bet 400 (half his stack), i reraised him all-in (almost all of my stack). his bet screamed miss, and i knew he'd fold and he did, and he had ak or so he said, and for how much he whined about me pushing him out with a crappy pair which i didn't even have, he better have had it.
oh and one more thing i remembered, calling a raise when you're bb without a great hand isn't protecting anything. protecting your blind means raising or reraising, obviously intelligently. don't reraise a tight aggressive player who has never stolen any blinds before, or a guy who goes all-in all the time.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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You dont need to worry about defending your blind in an full NL ring game....I dont think it is worth putting in the extra money to see the flop out of the blind because you are out of position.....I do however love calling a raise of about 3x-4x the bb out of the blind (or any other position) with low pocket pairs i.e jj and under if the implied odds are right.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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calling a raise when you're bb without a great hand isn't protecting anything. protecting your blind means raising or reraising, obviously intelligently.
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this is true in a NL context. in limit, however, re-raising by one more SB is never going to force anyone to fold, so it is a bad move unless you have AA/KK/AK. even if you have T8s, you are getting 3.5:1 to call a button raise if it's heads up. you are probably an underdog, but as long as you're not a 4:1 dog, the pot odds are good enough to "defend" your BB (i.e. call).
ChezJ
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{This post has been removed}
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
Sometimes if I spot a steal from the button when I am on the big blind....I'll punch all in with rags as fast as I can right over the top of him and then show after he folds :P
It sends a strong message...
"lay off my blinds or suffer the consequences"
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Ha HA rippy you are on crazy muther you know what.
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wwonka
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02-12-2005, 08:08 PM
Post subject: fold em unless
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#12 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 120
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you have a hand you would normally paly for a raise.
Once the money is in the pot it isnt yours anymore and trying to defend your blinds with mediocre hands will only cost you in the long run.
Now You can try to reraise and isolate if you have a decent hand but In general just let it go and look for times for you to steal or when you finally do get a good hand in the blinds and can reraise big.
JMHO
peace
wwonka
Patriots Rule.
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thestrokes
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: chicago
Posts: 119
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Instead of defending my own blinds with less than marginal hands ill just steal myself whenever i get an oppurtunity to compensate. If the raiser has the advantage give it to them, but make sure you utilize your own advantages, and if he gets too frisky pull a rippy.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i've been reading "killer poker" by john vorhaus and he outlined this excellent heads-up blind defense play for limit HE:
with a crap hand, don't defend.
with a premium hand, re-raise back and bet any scary flop.
with any other hand, smooth call preflop, check-call any low flop, then CHECK-RAISE THE TURN.
if the stealer has two high cards, he'll almost always fold. if he doesn't, your are beaten so fold to any subsequent bet.
i tried this last night and it was awesome. it is particularly effective if there is a pair on board.
ChezJ
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
i've been reading "killer poker" by john vorhaus and he outlined this excellent heads-up blind defense play for limit HE:
with a crap hand, don't defend.
with a premium hand, re-raise back and bet any scary flop.
with any other hand, smooth call preflop, check-call any low flop, then CHECK-RAISE THE TURN.
if the stealer has two high cards, he'll almost always fold. if he doesn't, your are beaten so fold to any subsequent bet.
i tried this last night and it was awesome. it is particularly effective if there is a pair on board.
ChezJ
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bumping because damn this works, ChezJ. Had KTo in BB versus pretty obvious steal at gamesgrid 2/4. called, flop was raggy with a pair.
It didn't hurt that the turn was a T. My CR scared off the stealer but not the SB. River was another T, SB check-called and lost a nice pot.
Then, shortly after, I had KJo versus another probable steal. Board was raggy and it checked around. Turn was T again, giving me nothing, but I checkraised. Both called (!)
River was an A but on account of my checkraise it checked around. You're not going to believe this ...
MHIG! That's right ... unimproved KJo versus 2 who called a CR. Another nice pot.
(Probably this should move to LHE)
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