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Dealing With Donkish Uberstacks

  
 
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Genitruc
Old 05-21-2006, 04:59 AM     Post subject: Dealing With Donkish Uberstacks #1 (permalink)  
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 I am buying in short (50€ at nl100) on B 2 B to complete the bonuses quicker. That tactic is worth a discussion in itself but not the subject in question here.

Just finished a session where I got it in 4 times in a row with best of it versus huge-stacked semi-donk (always took bad odds, played top pair bad-kicker like the nutz etc.) Here are 2 hands that happened within a span of 3 minutes that really hurt and tell you all you need to know about my dropping 5 semi buy-ins within 40 minutes :

Hand 1 :

Figured if he had AA he could have my stack anyday.

Game # 334125204 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,50/1,00 - Table "Tarragona"
Game ended 2006-05-21 06:34:16 GMT+01:00

Players:
fuknaces (EUR 70,30 in seat 1)
pericl2 (EUR 18,50 in seat 2)
Henitruk3 (EUR 84,45 in seat 3)
Miss-Liz (EUR 788,00 in seat 4)
The_Profit (EUR 83,40 in seat 5)
quidby (EUR 226,25 in seat 6)

Dealer: Miss-Liz
Small Blind: The_Profit (0,50)
Big Blind: quidby (1,00)

Henitruk3 was dealt: Ah - Kc

fuknaces Fold
pericl2 Raise (3,00)
Henitruk3 Raise (9,00)
Miss-Liz Raise (15,00)
The_Profit Fold
quidby Fold
pericl2 Fold
Henitruk3 Call (6,00)

Flop 7c - Th - Ad

Henitruk3 Check
Miss-Liz Bet (21,00)
Henitruk3 All-In (69,45)
Miss-Liz Call (48,45)

Turn 7c - Th - Ad - 9s
River 7c - Th - Ad - 9s - 2c

Henitruk3 shows: Ah - Kc (a pair of aces)
Miss-Liz shows: As - 2s (two pairs, aces and deuces)

Miss-Liz wins: EUR 170,40 (with two pairs, aces and deuces)
Rake: EUR 3,00



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2 :

Figured rivered gutshot was likely, but I beat 2 many hands in his range to fold.

Game # 334126137 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,50/1,00 - Table "Tarragona"
Game ended 2006-05-21 06:43:35 GMT+01:00

Players:
fuknaces (EUR 69,85 in seat 1)
pericl2 (EUR 41,70 in seat 2)
Henitruk3 (EUR 54,00 in seat 3)
Miss-Liz (EUR 877,10 in seat 4)
The_Profit (EUR 73,40 in seat 5)
quidby (EUR 231,35 in seat 6)

Dealer: Henitruk3
Small Blind: Miss-Liz (0,50)
Big Blind: The_Profit (1,00)

Henitruk3 was dealt: Ts - Td

quidby Fold
fuknaces Fold
pericl2 Fold
Henitruk3 Raise (3,50)
Miss-Liz Call (3,00)
The_Profit Fold

Flop 6s - 7d - Th

Miss-Liz Check
Henitruk3 Bet (5,00)
Miss-Liz Call (5,00)

Turn 6s - 7d - Th - Ks

Miss-Liz Bet (4,75)
Henitruk3 Raise (12,00)
Miss-Liz Call (7,25)

River 6s - 7d - Th - Ks - 8d

Miss-Liz Bet (60,00)
Henitruk3 All-In (33,50)
Miss-Liz Payback (26,50)

Miss-Liz shows: 9s - Js (a straight, jack high)
Henitruk3 shows: Ts - Td (three of a kind, tens)

Miss-Liz wins: EUR 106,00 (with a straight, jack high)
Rake: EUR 3,00



----------------------------------------------------------------------





Question is this : how do you deal in general with reasonable bad players who have ginormous stacks? Do you avoid them? It would seem to be +EV to match up against "weaker" players, but by doing some simple math it isn't tough to see why the size of this guy's stack was such a powerful weapon. He could chase just about anything he wanted and know that eventually he would bust me.

Is there any argument to be made for avoiding a situation like this because it's likely that eventually he'll bust shorties like me - no matter how many times we get it in ahead?
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badandy519
Old 05-21-2006, 05:14 AM #2 (permalink)  
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As long as your bankroll can handle it and you aren't tilting, I'd just stay right there and keep playing. Make a hand as you did and just keep letting the guy call you down. Eventually you'll get your $$ back.

I dropped 5 buyins in less than a half hour the other day at $25 NL 6 max to two calling station retards sucking out on some pretty terrible hands (both of them were over 85%VPIP.) I could have cut my losses and left the table, but I just kept reloading and eventually took most of it back from them.
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Lukie
Old 05-21-2006, 05:37 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Question is this : how do you deal in general with reasonable bad players who have ginormous stacks?
hmm, I usually make sure I 'x' out of all IE windows, turn off my cell phone, minimize AIM, perhaps chat with him a little bit and make him feel comfortable. Then I lick my lips knowing opportunities like this don't come around very often.

Quote:
Do you avoid them?
maybe if you have sympathy for them. Like if you're the kind of guy that says, wow, when that ginormous stack is MY stack, he's going to be heart broken. But in actuality it puts a great big smile on my face.

Quote:
It would seem to be +EV to match up against "weaker" players,
yes, correct. Just stop there. Everything else after this is awful.

Quote:
but by doing some simple math it isn't tough to see why the size of this guy's stack was such a powerful weapon. He could chase just about anything he wanted and know that eventually he would bust me.
similar to the roulette theory where you pick red or black everytime and double your bet everytime if you lose. It's inherently flawed, but you need to figure out why yourself.

Quote:
Is there any argument to be made for avoiding a situation like this because it's likely that eventually he'll bust shorties like me - no matter how many times we get it in ahead?
because you feel bad for him
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sunfunbunch
Old 05-21-2006, 06:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: Results aside: Why not Reraise this preflop?

I often see this position raise on the B2B network so that villian can take control of the pot.

Hand 2: Villian set you up for the 'cheap' river card.
Pot was ~17 on the turn and villian bet 4.75 into you.

Now pot is ~22. You then reraise villian's bet to 12 which is only about 55% pot (12/22).
I punish villian on the turn and reraise bigger.
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Genitruc
Old 05-21-2006, 06:25 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Thx for the replies.. sunfunbunch, maybe reread the thread : I am Henitruk3...

Lukie, I don't entirely agree with the comparison with the "roulette theory". With 10x my stack size, this dood can take 4 cracks at me before I have him covered. Unless I can get it in consistently with a huge lead, it is more likely than not that I will bust before I cover him. Hence the question.

I suppose the answer should be that I should just buy in full and not be afraid to reload my br on this site if a bad run occurs. So fucking annoying though to reload into a site you're playing exclusively for whoring purposes...
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renegaderob1
Old 05-21-2006, 09:18 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I agree 100% with Lukie here...

This is the best time to reload with a full stack and bring home the bacon...
Roll Rebuilding (for the second time). Current; $1600 from $300 (previous, $2300 from $15)
 
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Genitruc
Old 05-21-2006, 09:46 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 HAHAHAHA...

Thank you all for the sound advice. Of course this is a results-based opinion ... + 2.6 full buy-ins in 56 min session despite flush over flush for full buy-inafter reloading full and 1-tabling with specific intent of exploiting donkmeister...

Lukie you are right of course. My problem lies entirely in the psychological aspect of reloading br at a site where I am whoring. This is stupid. Gotta get over it. Luckily I won't be reloading just yet...
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biondino
Old 05-21-2006, 08:30 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Why do you keep referring to a player called Miss Liz "him"?
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nutsinho
Old 05-21-2006, 08:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunfunbunch
Hand 1: Results aside: Why not Reraise this preflop?

I often see this position raise on the B2B network so that villian can take control of the pot.

Hand 2: Villian set you up for the 'cheap' river card.
Pot was ~17 on the turn and villian bet 4.75 into you.

Now pot is ~22. You then reraise villian's bet to 12 which is only about 55% pot (12/22).
I punish villian on the turn and reraise bigger.
On the turn, villain bets 4.75 making the pot 22.75
hero calls 4.75 (27.50) and raises 7.25, which is just over 25% of the pot. With implied odds (knowing hero will call a push when Q or 8 drops), this is a super-easy call
HERO is the donk in this hand[/b]
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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Genitruc
Old 05-21-2006, 10:14 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 sunfunbunch thx for editing your reply.
Nutsinho u r right. Didn't even notice he had double belly-buster.

Hee haw.
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Turska
Old 05-22-2006, 10:27 AM     Post subject: hmm #11 (permalink)  
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I would be very careful calling someone who has 17 x my stack
a donk
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Genitruc
Old 05-22-2006, 10:34 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 I have seen fish go on massive upswings too many times to hestiate at all in calling someone a donk regardless of their stack size. Within 90 minutes, 700€ was gone (luckily I got some of it). Oh yeah... See hand 1. If that is not donkalicious... what is?
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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