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Fnord
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02-23-2006, 09:53 PM
Post subject: David Sklansky on NLHE
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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At the beginning of our book is a warning that in No Limit holdem, all the theory and knowledge in the world ,will not make you a favorite against a player who can read you a lot better than you can read him. At least in big stack games. One of the reasons that I never wrote a no limit book before. On the other hand you, as an intermedite player, should realize that it is even more true in no limit than limit, especially as regards shorthanded games, that the most succesful players will be confused about the mathematical underpinnings of the game. Because they won't be punished enough for their ignorance.
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Andy Holt
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02-23-2006, 10:02 PM
Post subject: Re: David Sklansky on NLHE
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#2 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: They were suited!
Posts: 336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by David Sklansky
the most succesful players will be confused about the mathematical underpinnings of the game. Because they won't be punished enough for their ignorance.
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I find this very profound.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Is this from the book I heard he's releasing?
How complex a mathematial strategy are we talking about? I'm sure H@LL knows he's 36% to hit his flush.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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You've obviously been following the threads in the 2+2 HSNL forum that DS has been posting lately.
It's been interesting and at the same time kinda annoying to see how the high stakes 2+2 NL players react to DS's posts. His 'do you see why' condescension seems to rub people the wrong way. Then again, I've seen a lot of uncalled for disrespect thrown his way too. Regardless, if you manage to wade through all the ego, you can learn a fair amount from those posts.
I hope the DS+Miller upcoming NL book isn't a big disapointment. Based on the quality of TOP and SSH, I expect it to do a good job in formalizing general NL concepts. I also expect to see a large amount of discussion on stack depth etc. Then again, part of me doesn't even want that book published out of fear that enough of my bad opponents will read it and as a result cease to be as horrible as they are.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Is this from the book I heard he's releasing?
How complex a mathematial strategy are we talking about? I'm sure H@LL knows he's 36% to hit his flush.
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No, it's from a 2+2 post.
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Blinky
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Quote:
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On the other hand you, as an intermedite player, should realize that it is even more true in no limit than limit, especially as regards shorthanded games, that the most succesful players will be confused about the mathematical underpinnings of the game. Because they won't be punished enough for their ignorance.
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I don't normally complain about this but oh oh sweet mother of grammar. I hope Sklansky has good editors 
I'm sure there's a great message in there but I'm not sure I understand it due to horrific sentence structure and sentence fragment. Anyone care to interpret?
Is Sklansky saying
-that the best players are mathematically ignorant?
-the best players disregard a major part of the math (and this is somehow exploitable)?
Something else?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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sklanskys a fish
his book on limit was good though...
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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I thought that BOTH skills are important, math AND reading skills. Occasional "lucky" 568 flops are also welcome, just to pull Ripptyde's move against nitty set-farmer 
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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At the beginning of our book is a warning that in No Limit holdem, all the theory and knowledge in the world will not make you a favorite against a player who can read you a lot better than you can read him...Because they won't be punished enough for their ignorance.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blinky
Anyone care to interpret?
Is Sklansky saying
-that the best players are mathematically ignorant?
-the best players disregard a major part of the math (and this is somehow exploitable)?
Something else?
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Booksmarts<Streetsmarts
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I haven't been paying attention to sklansky or his posts. When is he planning on releasing his book?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blinky
Is Sklansky saying
-that the best players are mathematically ignorant?
-the best players disregard a major part of the math (and this is somehow exploitable)?
Something else?
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The best players can do the maths BUT the good players dont need to if they can read, force errors from their opponents (i.e. strong instincts).
In otherwords....Rippy doesnt play by the math but he doesnt do too badly for himself.
Thats what i took it to mean. I also disagree. I strongly suspect that the best players got good by studying the game and most of them will have picked up some maths along the way. I havnt read many educational cardplayer articles that havnt at least mentioned maths, and those tend to be written by some pretty good players.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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I interpret this as saying that there are two main skills to use when playing poker - playing the numbers and playing the player/situation/psychology. He is saying that especially in no limit and shorthanded games, the element of playing the player/situation/psychology can be as important or more so than the numbers. The players that use that part of their game to their advantage can't appreciate or understand as much as the pure mathematical side because they haven't lost out enough from making bad mathematical decisions since the other part of their game is making up for it.
So, if a strict "by the numbers" player is on a straight draw and faces a 3/4 of a pot bet from a villain, from a numbers perspective, he folds since the drawing odds aren't there. But, a player who can read well may sense weakness and fire back with a big re-raise with rags (other than the straight draw). If he's right and the villain folds, he won't necessarily understand the mathematical side as much since he wasn't punished for making an incorrect statistical decision.
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- Jason
 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason
The player/situation/psychology is more important than the numbers. However, he's going on to say that many of the biggest winners are making mistakes which are exploitable by a somewhat worse opponent
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Fixed your post.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
Then again, part of me doesn't even want that book published out of fear that enough of my bad opponents will read it and as a result cease to be as horrible as they are.
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Oh shit I never thought about it that way maybe I shouldn't be eagerly awaiting its release...
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
Then again, part of me doesn't even want that book published out of fear that enough of my bad opponents will read it and as a result cease to be as horrible as they are.
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Oh shit I never thought about it that way maybe I shouldn't be eagerly awaiting its release... |
Dont be silly guys, one more book in the library... its not gonna change the make up of our opponents - the studiers will continue studying, the gamblers will continue gamb000ling
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SinkRox
Dont be silly guys, one more book in the library... its not gonna change the make up of our opponents - the studiers will continue studying, the gamblers will continue gamb000ling
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The NLHE material out there right now is mediocre at best.
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