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LuckySlevin
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07-18-2008, 02:13 AM
Post subject: on the culture in the beginners forum
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Poker Room
Posts: 1,050
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There is a 'us' v them mentality in this forum which is awful considering it is meant to be a forum for new players.
I would like to take this opportunity to point out to any moderators that perhaps a little more moderation is warranted, when a group of users take it upon themselves to 'attempt' to belittle an individual user, by constantly talking down to said individual and trying to cajole him into retorting.
I have had the pleasure of speaking with three genuine people over the past three weeks, they are in no particular order : smitts, robb and bjaust.
I have visited many forums in my time and in terms of users, this is by far the worst - owing to the absolutely sickening arrogance that proliferates.
The people know who I am referring to, and it will be patently obvious for any moderator who choses to review any of the threads over the past 2 or 3 days.
I will make it in poker, but it will be in spite of forum input, and not because of it.
I shan't be posting any more. But remember my name, you may well see me around some time.
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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d'oh
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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I have read through every thread you speak of Lucky, and in an unbiased manner I do not see any of the belittling you speak off. Yes there were harsh words exchanged both from you and towards you. However, the other players aren't intending to bully you, or however you would like to state it, they are simplying pointing out your mistakes, whether it be in the form of a poorly played K9 hand or your lack of experience which leads to your inability to give sound advice. And on both occasions you managed to ignore the advice you have been given. That's all every individual was attempting to tell you (including Thunder). You put up a hand and it was critismed (rightfully so as you played it badly. Take the critism and learn to play better). You attempted to give advice and as you don't have a adequate roll, and you haven't put in near enough hands it was pointed out that you don't hold much credibility YET. Leave if you must, but just know that in doing so you prove alot of the posters points in showing that you do not take critism well and that you are acting stubborn.
Peace be with you!
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Also, one last thing.. To publically call out the moderators ability to do her job is also stubborn. Go to her privately next time. Fwiw, Courtiebee does a wonderful job and I have yet to see a problem with the way any of the forums are being run.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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LuckySelvin, you're dumb.
/obligatory
//didn't read any other threads
///probably still right
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Dude, just cool down for a bit and realize this. Really, what would be the point of more experienced players coming to the Beginner's forum to flame and ridicule all who posts? It's complete nonsense. We're here to help and give feedback to beginners. There's a wealth of information here if you just stop and look around. If you feel you're being treated unfairly, well, there's most likely something you're doing to cause it. Keep posting your questions, thoughts, and hands. You're not going to find much better advice or help from a poker community than FTR.
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sil693
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 609
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I have a feeling you may be talking to me here, as I responded towards a couple of your posts and pretty much backed up what Thunder said.
My post(s) is/are in no way meant to belittle you. I sucked at poker before I came here, although I thought I was the absolute tits. All i was saying is take on board what these guys tell you, they know it far better than you, me and all the other noobs.
Leave if you want, it'll be your loss.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Sometimes it can be hard to point out mistakes without sounding condescending. I try hard not to, but even constructive criticism can come across (especially in the written form), as just criticism.
I dont read enough threads to have noticed what you mean, but a practise thats stood me in good stead, is that if theres a good and a bad way to take something, assume its meant to be taken in the good way.
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Just playing to improve.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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I'm belittling and sickeningly arrogant....
oh well - lucky I'm not pathetically thin-skinned
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Originally Posted by daven
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
I agree with Pythonic. Pretty simple hand to play here and you did it just fine.
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except for the turn...
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
looking at this the observation i've made is that because the straight was 'on' I maybe should have bet more heavily after the Ace, to make it expensive for him to see if a two was coming - do you think that would have been a better play?
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betting the turn harder is far better, for all sorts of reasons.
You should size your bets in relation to the size of the pot. Here, the pot going into the turn was about 700. If you are prepared to be showing down with top two pair here (your call, I probably would in a freeroll) then bet the turn close to 3/4 pot - something like 550 is good. This is to do with odds, have you learnt about pot odds for draws yet? if not, you should.
if he had 56 for the open ended straight draw (oesd - and he looks like he could, even though he didn't) then his turn play was better than yours - because of your turn bet size. Pre-flop and flop were good. |
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Originally Posted by daven
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
I guess this was the wrong call in hindsight, but I thought in a game of two players pre flop 8-8 would have been reasonably strong.
Was I wrong?
can someone explain why?
Many Thanks
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Blind sizes are important here. If blinds were > 600 then I think your call was fine, if blinds between 300 and 600 it's questionable, but probably ok. If blinds less than 300 then it was wrong. This is do with something called m, basically how many more orbits you can play without running out of chips from the blinds. When m<10 it's about time to gamble...
Reason. He's chip leader. That feels good. He is happy to risk no longer being chip leader. Means that he most likely has a hand that is at least ok. Think about what cards he is likely to have, that's his range. Consider how well 88 fares against this range.
In this situation, it's likely that his range is pocket pairs >77, or something like AQ/AK.
Against 77 you are ahead, against AK or AQ it is 50-50. Against everything else you are way behind. You need a far stronger hand to call an all-in than to go all-in yourself - cos there is no bluff element.
Hope that makes some sense!
welcome to ftr. |
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Keep in mind a few things.
First, whenever an experienced player helps someone who isn't as good, he is immediately making the games incrementally harder for himself.
Second, there is a lot of mental toughness needed to be successful at poker. If you can't handle phrases like "get all of that bitch out of your uterus" and/or "that play sucks pretty bad" then what makes you think that you could handle huge monetary swings?
Third, be honest with yourself. If your ego can't handle being a beginner, then how can be honest with yourself as you continue through the learning process?
Fourth, if you expect to get anywhere in poker, you'd better get all of that shit out of your head about nice people helping you along every step of the way.
Midol - for Relief of your Menstrual Symptoms
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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whats with all the e-drama lately?
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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A lot of the Canadian and US problems with their youth can be attributed to the softening of the parents/teachers. Everyone has to tip toe around "feelings". You have to toughen up. This game is much more mental than it is physical, you need to be mentally prepared. If you can't take some criticism, this world will eat you alive.
I will say though, Thunder, you seem to have forgotten pretty quick how things were and are for you. We had a lot of patience with you about a ton of stupid posts and questions. I have no idea what is eating at you.
Luckyslevin, you need to toughen up and get over it. There has been a ton of useful advice given by people in several of your threads, even by thunder, but you are not listening.
When it comes to poker, there is no excuse for bad play, especially ignorance.
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
I will say though, Thunder, you seem to have forgotten pretty quick how things were and are for you. We had a lot of patience with you about a ton of stupid posts and questions. I have no idea what is eating at you.
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I have not forgotten anything. Asking is one thing, even stupid questions, but continuously choosing to ignore what is being said is another altogether - as I admitted when I mentioned my ace rag flush thread. So too is getting ideas above your station. Normally I wouldn't care less if someone chose to be like this, especially if they're at the tables, but like others, I was trying to help him so I mentioned it.
And nothing is eating at me either. When he started to act like a chimp in a cage throwing his faeces around, I merely pointed out how he is being hypocritical and that it isn't reflecting good on him considering his situation. Most of all, my posts explained why he was getting the advice he was. Many people, when replying to my numb posts, weren't that helpful and so I made sure I gave him a full explanation.
And as you have noted, my posts contained good advice - because that's what they are about. And is why other people didn't see anything wrong in what I wrote. Maybe it sticks out to you because this was the first time I had posted advice, instead of asking questions, and it stood out that I was critiquing somebody. Whatever your reason, I assure you that the there was no unnecessary ripping going on or anything eating away.
Finally, it should be noted that I had already exchanged several pms with him before I even made a reply in the forum, including how to avoid making some of the mistakes I made. As in all the other threads, he chose to ignore this advice. And when I gave good sound advice in the forum, he became obnoxious, others saw it too, and we get to where we are today.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Fair enough
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WillburForce
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SW London
Posts: 516
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
When it comes to poker, there is no excuse for bad play, especially ignorance.
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Slevin, this is good advice - and I haven't read over the posts where people may have been rude to you or whatever. I'm sure they were just pointing out were you played something wrong. And maybe it did get a bit personal. But who really really cares?
I wouldn't take it personally if a better player than me told me I played a hand like a cockmonkey. I'd be more interested to know why they thought I played it so bad.
And so I get called a cockmonkey at the same time? So what??? As people have said, get the f*ck over it and toughen up.
If you wanna stop posting thats fine - but don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
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ponyboy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Keep in mind a few things.
First, whenever an experienced player helps someone who isn't as good, he is immediately making the games incrementally harder for himself.
Second, there is a lot of mental toughness needed to be successful at poker. If you can't handle phrases like "get all of that bitch out of your uterus" and/or "that play sucks pretty bad" then what makes you think that you could handle huge monetary swings?
Third, be honest with yourself. If your ego can't handle being a beginner, then how can be honest with yourself as you continue through the learning process?
Fourth, if you expect to get anywhere in poker, you'd better get all of that shit out of your head about nice people helping you along every step of the way.
Midol - for Relief of your Menstrual Symptoms |
This is true. I was the one told to get the bitch out of my uterus and even though I didn't agree with the delivery, the message was valid. We are actually quite lucky to even have people who will tell us that we are idiots and give advice (no matter how harsh it may be) instead of simply logging onto whatever table we are at and taking all of our money.
People can be very nice to your face and then stab you in the back. It happens all the time. I'd rather someone be a jerk to me as long as they have good intentions and can teach me something.
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Warpe
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07-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Post subject: Re: on the culture in the beginners forum
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#17 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
There is a 'us' v them mentality in this forum which is awful considering it is meant to be a forum for new players.
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More like a 'good advice' vs. 'bad advice' mentality, and the forum tries to self-police by shooting down bad advice and bad attitudes so that noobs aren't reading garbage that will lose them money at the poker table.
Reponses may be harsh at times but they are generally made in the spirit of lifting everyone's play. Get over yourself, open your mind, read and learn.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Keep in mind a few things.
First, whenever an experienced player helps someone who isn't as good, he is immediately making the games incrementally harder for himself.
Second, there is a lot of mental toughness needed to be successful at poker. If you can't handle phrases like "get all of that bitch out of your uterus" and/or "that play sucks pretty bad" then what makes you think that you could handle huge monetary swings?
Third, be honest with yourself. If your ego can't handle being a beginner, then how can be honest with yourself as you continue through the learning process?
Fourth, if you expect to get anywhere in poker, you'd better get all of that shit out of your head about nice people helping you along every step of the way.
Midol - for Relief of your Menstrual Symptoms |
This is true. I was the one told to get the bitch out of my uterus and even though I didn't agree with the delivery, the message was valid. We are actually quite lucky to even have people who will tell us that we are idiots and give advice (no matter how harsh it may be) instead of simply logging onto whatever table we are at and taking all of our money.
People can be very nice to your face and then stab you in the back. It happens all the time. I'd rather someone be a jerk to me as long as they have good intentions and can teach me something. |
Now this is what we need. Where can I get about 50 more of this guy to fill the Beginner's forums? Then we'd be making some progress.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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*squats in middle of thread and drops a big steamy log*
*exits*
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
*squats in middle of thread and drops a big steamy log*
*exits*
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Mod???? Clean up on aisle.... oh hell, wtf is this thread called again....?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Please go to 2p2 and see how well they help you with your terrible attitude and worse play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Keep in mind a few things.
First, whenever an experienced player helps someone who isn't as good, he is immediately making the games incrementally harder for himself.
Second, there is a lot of mental toughness needed to be successful at poker. If you can't handle phrases like "get all of that bitch out of your uterus" and/or "that play sucks pretty bad" then what makes you think that you could handle huge monetary swings?
Third, be honest with yourself. If your ego can't handle being a beginner, then how can be honest with yourself as you continue through the learning process?
Fourth, if you expect to get anywhere in poker, you'd better get all of that shit out of your head about nice people helping you along every step of the way.
Midol - for Relief of your Menstrual Symptoms |
This.
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Please go to 2p2 and see how well they help you with your terrible attitude and worse play.
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..and this. Or go to Neverwin and we'll make a prop bet over many penises appear in your thread.
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xptboy
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Straight
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 187
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read through the threads and gotta agree with what everyone said, phil hellmtuh's book is atrocious (your opinion won't matter because good players all agree that it suxx because good players don't read a book and play by it but read the book and then debate with themselves over the ideas given in the book whether or not it's the correct play)
the hands you posted were a bit lol, and the advice given was correct so you should've been grateful to get advice on hands in which you played horribly
some people were harsh to you, but they gave you sound advice which you refused to take and then went on to claim that you'd later become king of the world...
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NODGrindKing
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
whats with all the e-drama lately?
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tell me about it,
its like a virus!
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chardrian
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I rarely,if ever, get pms
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,524
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I rarely, if ever, get pms.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I rarely, if ever, get pms over something on the Internet.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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LuckySlevin, good luck finding a friendlier poker forum with more players able and willing to help you out. FTR isn't huge, but it's big enough to have a few pretty good players who want to help people get better. And the community here is awesome - you can actually build legit relationships by posting and meeting people here.
I've read a few of the more recent threads and yeah, some people deliver their advice in a less friendly and more to-the-point way than others. I really think that the important thing, though, is that wrong advice gets corrected (usually) and that in the end, some decent advice is usually given. Isn't that why you came here in the first place, to learn and be corrected by those who have more experience?
That being said, I haven't been paying attention enough the last week or so to know what you're talking about specifically. If you have any specific complaints or concerns, PM me (or chard, he likes pms too).
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Fwiw, Courtiebee does a wonderful job and I have yet to see a problem with the way any of the forums are being run.
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ty sir.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
LuckySlevin, good luck finding a friendlier poker forum with more players able and willing to help you out.
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That's some straight spit. If ever there was a bigger pain in the ass dumb f-ck noobie is me, and this group ALWAYS reppin straight up knowledge. And how that sh!t dropped is actually half the fun...  You all's the best!
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Ummm... what's up with the avatar LuckySlevin?! 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
Ummm... what's up with the avatar LuckySlevin?! |
I noticed that too.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Beginners Forum
Place with great help and patience
Oops not the right thread
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
LuckySlevin, good luck finding a friendlier poker forum with more players able and willing to help you out.
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That's some straight spit. If ever there was a bigger pain in the ass dumb f-ck noobie is me, and this group ALWAYS reppin straight up knowledge. And how that sh!t dropped is actually half the fun... You all's the best! |
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I loooove it when someone I respect rips apart my play or thought process. That just means I can only get better and I have learned something new that day. Stop caring about how they say it, just think about what they are getting across and move on.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Slevin.
I'm not going to argue. I've been there before. The simple fact of the matter is. 99% of the posters here are men. What's more, they are Mens' men!
Which means that they will laugh at you when you fall down. They will offer you a tampon when you're bitching.
They will tell you when you're doing something wrong and give you in pretty simple, straight forward terms how to fix it. When you think they are wrong, well fuck ya, they don't need your shit.
I got into a pretty epic argument over drawing odds on the flop and the turn, with 1/2 of the FTR the posters 2 years ago. I cited evidence, and basically totally proved I was 100% a noob. I felt like A) I was right and B) They were picking on me.
I won my first Tournament, last night, outlasting 1300 other players-ish. I got into an opportunity to win by exercising everything I learned here. When I was out of my element I went onto vent and said "Guys, I'm out of my element here" and they hooked me up, railed me, and we chatted about hands, and what my stacksize meant.
I learned more in a night than I've learned in a very long time. You attack FTR, and you attack everyone that's been helped by FTR.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
I will make it in poker, but it will be in spite of forum input, and not because of it.
I shan't be posting any more. But remember my name, you may well see me around some time.
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Is right up there with WCGrider's "I'll be a legend forever" bullshit over grinding some 25nl.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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07-19-2008, 07:28 PM
Post subject: Re: on the culture in the beginners forum
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#36 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LuckySlevin
But remember my name, you may well see me around some time.
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Sure. Maybe I'll see you railing me at next years WSOP. Now get my damn avatar off your profile boy!
See ya in Vegas!
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Hawk
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07-19-2008, 10:07 PM
Post subject: Re: on the culture in the beginners forum
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#37 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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lol at this whole thread.
But I agree with OP. There are too many assholes around here trying to help people get better. This needs to change.
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Originally Posted by Mezza Morta
[Now get my damn avatar off your profile boy!
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lol I hate that. I just changed avatars not too long ago when someone started using mine shortly after I chose it. I'm just a weenie who avoids confrontation. I like my current one anyhow.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Make a new forum handle, play like you're a newbie who's hear to learn and level us all. A convincing performance will have us red in the face, Ho boy!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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OK Lucky Slevin I just quickly glanced over this thread and the other one, please be more appreciative of any advice you get, no one's payed for posting here we do it to
- further our own play by thinking more
- Help
- For fun
If you post a stupid question then get bitchy it doesn't help anyone further their own play and your bitchiness doesn't makeppl want to help or find it fun.
ALSO srsly change the avatar it's toooooo confusing.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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I don't think he's coming back. Frickin' bridge jumper. What a shame... 
This shit thread should be on lock-down here real soon. Beginner's Circle is turning into a General Shit Thread Discussion forum. Yawn...
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
