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Thunder
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07-20-2008, 03:15 PM
Post subject: Crossing Over to Cash - How?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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I am well aware that the best way to build a bank roll, and thus best way to ever becoming a pro/wealthy/self sufficient is to play cash. I am also aware of the concensus that cash can make you a better player and that when I win 9 players stacks in a 10 man SNG, I am only getting paid for 5. Conversely when I crash out in 4th, despite having busted players msyelf, I end up with nothing and wish I cold have walked away at an earlier point.
However, I love tourneys and find cash extremely boring. Whereas in a tourney I can be extremely patient, in cash I get bored very quickly, find myself pushing the action and making plays (some stupidly good, most just stupid). I have no idea why this is and can only conclude that even when I am inactive in a tourney, there is still momentum in the ever increasing blinds and people getting knocked out.
Any ideas how, if at all, I can develop my cash game without donking it all away? Any tourney players felt the same yet managed to make the transition? If so, I;d love to hear how you did it. HU is out and 10 man can be very dull so I figured on 6 max but that just plays to my penchant for pushing the action and getting into trouble. 
Thx
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Learn to have fun winning monies.
Serious response. I was the same way and had the same issues at cash, but once I concentrated on winning money and enjoying that rather than enjoying "action", it all became a lot easier.
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Just playing to improve.
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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But am not an action junkie - that's the thing.
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Rage2100
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 719
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I was the same too, as I played solely SnGs for just over a year when I started playing poker. When I tried cash, it seemed really slow and boring.
A few months back, I started playing more cash and was really liking it. It was 6-max, as I found full ring even more slow, and I started making a steady profit.
I still like SnGs, and for the last couple of weeks, I have hardly played any cash again, but I would eventually like to play cash games as the majority, as I think there is more money to be made there.
Every time I go back to cash, I seem to stay longer each time, and play less and less SnGs. Maybe this is the way to cross over, keep switching between the two, but each time, increase the cash and decrease the SnGs.
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Warpe
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07-20-2008, 07:21 PM
Post subject: Re: Crossing Over to Cash - How?
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#5 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
However, I love tourneys and find cash extremely boring. Whereas in a tourney I can be extremely patient, in cash I get bored very quickly, find myself pushing the action and making plays (some stupidly good, most just stupid).
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play more tables
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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I thought of multi tabling but was concerned about being walked over, considering I am a cash noob.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Play FR, start with 2 tables. Plenty of time to make decisions.
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Play FR, start with 2 tables. Plenty of time to make decisions.
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Agreed. When I started playing cash instead of SNG's I tried 4 tabling but was losing money quickly so I dropped down to 2. I also REALLY tightened up my starting hands so I could focus on improving my post flop play and hand reading skills.
Also, you need to initially spend as much time browsing posts as you do playing. Much of what gets said may not make much sense early, but you will start to catch on to the techniques and find it much easier to make smart decisions.
Finally, read all of the posts here - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...st-t65040.html over and over again.
Good Luck
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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Thx.
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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One other thing that I have noticed is the relatively slow bankroll build that can be expected from cash. Again, if anyone can identify and offer solutions it would be appreciated.
3bb/hour is standard so at 100NL that's $3 per hour. Across a 3hour session, you're averaging $9 which is just 9% of your BI.
This doesn't compare well to SNG play where 3rd place doubles my BI and 1st place delivers a whopping 500%. Sure, 16 tabling means a fair amount per hour but if I am gonna be 2 tabling to begin with that's a max of $6 per hour and $18 across 3 hours (which will be hard to sit through). Assuming I bought in for 100bb each time, that's still just 9% and it seems incredibly slow and monotonous.
Advice from those who experienced the same, corrections if I am wrong, personal examples of bankroll building results are all welcome.
Thx.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
3bb/hour is standard so at 100NL that's $3 per hour. Across a 3hour session, you're averaging $9 which is just 9% of your BI.
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No, 3PTBB/100 hands is Std. Playing 4 tables of $100NL cash is anywhere near 400 hands/hr. That's closer to $24/hr, plus RB and bonuses. About $30/hr.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I would also suggest working on patience outside of poker.
See my signature for details.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Thunder
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: England
Posts: 561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
3bb/hour is standard so at 100NL that's $3 per hour. Across a 3hour session, you're averaging $9 which is just 9% of your BI.
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No, 3 PTBB/100 hands is Std. Playing 4 tables of $100NL cash is anywhere near 400 hands/hr. That's closer to $24/hr, plus RB and bonuses. About $30/hr. |
That's a far more impressive return. Can you explain the difference between 3bb and 3ptbb and as to how you arrived at that figure? 24/4 = 6 so I am guessing 1ptbb = 2bb?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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bb/100 is big blinds per 100 hands. Whereas, ptbb/100 is big bets (big blinds * 2) per 100 hands. PokerTracker will say bb/100, but it actually means ptbb/100, unless you have changed it.
Therefore, if you are running at 3ptbb/100 at 100nl. THat is the same at 6bb/100, which evens out to $6/100 hands. Playing around 5-6 tables you can get in 400 or so hands an hour, for around $24/hr. As jyms said, I'm sure it's a good deal more with RB/bonuses.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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What stacks said. That's the expected earn on a $2500+ BR as well. From the little I understand about MTT's and STT's, the same BR will put you in the $25 x 100 buy ins for MTT's and $50 x 50 buy ins for STT's, but I have no idea what an ROI that would bring in, nor an hourly rate.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thunder
One other thing that I have noticed is the relatively slow bankroll build that can be expected from cash.
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lol, no. Lets say you play 25nl FR and play 50k hands in a month @4ptbb/100, that's $1000 in a month. Say you like 20table 60hands an hour, that's $24 an hour for 41hours work and that's just microstakes.
I'd say that much more an hour than you could earn for $5/$10 STTs or small stake MTTs
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