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A couple hands for Review

  
 
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sven00100
Old 05-16-2010, 06:37 PM     Post subject: 55 and KTs Hands for review #1 (permalink)  
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My first session in open tables in a while,
I'll just post the hands, feel free to make any relevant comments.
Sample sizes were small at the point I played these hands, so I will consider any possible reads irrelevant.

Hand 1:::

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.13)
Button ($7.79)
SB ($3.12)
BB ($2.74)
UTG ($10.39)
UTG+1 ($4.11)
MP1 ($0.62)
MP2 ($2.01)
Hero (MP3) ($4)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5, 5
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.06, 3 folds, BB calls $0.04, MP1 calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.19) 2, 8, 3 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.13, BB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.45) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.28, BB calls $0.28

River: ($1.01) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $1.01 | Rake: $0.06

Hand 2:::

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($4.14)
SB ($6.53)
BB ($2.13)
UTG ($2.94)
UTG+1 ($2.12)
MP1 ($5.14)
MP2 ($1.88)
Hero (CO) ($4.27)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, 10
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.26) J, K, 10 (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets $0.26, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.74

Turn: ($2.26) 2 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.26) 6 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $2.26 | Rake: $0.15
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d0zer
Old 05-16-2010, 06:57 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 even a read of 75/0 over 4 hands is relevant.

Hand 1: raise more pre. flop bet I like but the turn is too thin imo. Just check it down.

Hand 2: I b/f that turn like 1.10
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sven00100
Old 05-16-2010, 07:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
even a read of 75/0 over 4 hands is relevant.

Hand 1: raise more pre. flop bet I like but the turn is too thin imo. Just check it down.

Hand 2: I b/f that turn like 1.10
Fair enough, at the time of the hands:

Hand 1 villain:: 38/14/58 (VP$IP/PFR/AFreq)
Hand 2 villain:: 24/8/20
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sven00100
Old 05-16-2010, 07:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sven00100 View Post
Fair enough, at the time of the hands:

Hand 1 villain:: 38/14/58 (VP$IP/PFR/AFreq)
Hand 2 villain:: 24/8/20
The sample size was ~10 hands

Sigh - meant to edit my last post not quote it.
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d0zer
Old 05-16-2010, 08:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Those stats don't change my advice, I was just making a point that small sample reads shouldn't be completely discarded, they should just be treated as weak reads, and not be used to justify anything to out of line.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-16-2010, 08:51 PM #6 (permalink)  
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H1: IMO atleast 3.5x pre, b/f flop, check the turn and fold to normal sized bet if an A,6, or spade hit the river.

H2: His flop bet smells like A10 or QJ, but yeah. b/f turn, but I would size it at about 1.6 for value and protection
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d0zer
Old 05-16-2010, 11:32 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
H2: His flop bet smells like A10 or QJ, but yeah. b/f turn, but I would size it at about 1.6 for value and protection
I prefer to bet the turn smaller because the board just got scarier for the range we're trying to extract from and we save money when we get c/r'd by a flush.

There's not THAT many one club hands villain has here, and by near potting it we're giving QT, JT, or a shitty king too much of a reason to fold.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-17-2010, 12:04 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
I prefer to bet the turn smaller because the board just got scarier for the range we're trying to extract from and we save money when we get c/r'd by a flush.

There's not THAT many one club hands villain has here, and by near potting it we're giving QT, JT, or a shitty king too much of a reason to fold.
I don't think his range is really afraid of a flush given the way that we played it, and I don't think that he often turns the flush here. Betting larger lets us get makes his odds to draw worse which is what I'm really getting at. The board got really wet ont he turn, and any hand that continues has a lot of "Bluff Outs". My turn bet was mostly for protection over value, but I'm still folding to a c/r because some of teh feeshes bet pot when they flop a FD?
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d0zer
Old 05-17-2010, 12:21 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
I don't think his range is really afraid of a flush given the way that we played it, and I don't think that he often turns the flush here. Betting larger lets us get makes his odds to draw worse which is what I'm really getting at. The board got really wet ont he turn, and any hand that continues has a lot of "Bluff Outs". My turn bet was mostly for protection over value, but I'm still folding to a c/r because some of teh feeshes bet pot when they flop a FD?
"the way we played it?"

lol @ this fish doing any sort of handreading. He's looking at the now scarier board.

Also I have no idea what "protection over value" means. The turn bet is either for value or it's bad.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-17-2010, 12:37 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
"the way we played it?"

lol @ this fish doing any sort of handreading. He's looking at the now scarier board.

Also I have no idea what "protection over value" means. The turn bet is either for value or it's bad.
Okay, by protection over value I meant I wanted to make all draws pay more and fold a higher % of the time; rather than let them call for slightly less and call a higher % of the time. Because there are several draws, I feel that he could take the pot down if a scare card came that completed part of his range, even if it didn't really improve his hand. I feel that we have to bet more for it not to be a profitable draw for him because we won't always know where we're at by the river.
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d0zer
Old 05-17-2010, 01:16 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Okay, by protection over value I meant I wanted to make all draws pay more and fold a higher % of the time; rather than let them call for slightly less and call a higher % of the time.
If we increase his calling frequency significantly enough it's more +EV. I don't think a queen is folding to either size -- I'm thinking more of value from weaker made hands that are gunna be scared of the flush coming in.

This is a pretty minor point I'm trying to make about value betting feesh smaller when the board gets scarier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Because there are several draws, I feel that he could take the pot down if a scare card came that completed part of his range, even if it didn't really improve his hand.
You really shouldn't be worried about feesh turning made hands into bluffs on scary rivers -- it really doesn't happen nearly enough to concern yourself with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
I feel that we have to bet more for it not to be a profitable draw for him because we won't always know where we're at by the river.
You have position on a fish. It's really ez to know where you are when draws come in and he donks the river big. Or you can check behind if draws complete -- we do has position. If we don't suck on the river then he has no implied odds to chase anyway, and a little over pot doesn't give him direct odds. Don't worry about fish chasing when you have position.

I'm all for charging fish the max to chase, and I don't hate your sizing at all -- I just think mine is a little better in this spot because of the 3-flush. *shrug*
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