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A couple all-in moments

  
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 01-05-2009, 08:39 AM     Post subject: A couple all-in moments #1 (permalink)  
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DoanDiggy
These two hands came in one orbit against the same villain. Any comments on my play?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($10.50)
SB ($1.45)
BB ($5)
Hero (UTG) ($13.85)
UTG+1 ($1.85)
MP1 ($9.90)
MP2 ($12.40)
MP3 ($2)
CO ($2)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero raises to $0.40, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.40, 6 folds

Flop: ($1) J, 3, J (2 players)
Hero bets $0.75, MP1 raises to $2, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($5) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $2.50, Hero raises to $7.50

For the above hand, does the following seem like a pretty sensible range? I think it's actually a best-case scenario for villain since a lot of the hearts and J hands I included should be folding preflop.

Code:
Board: Js 3h Jh 9h
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	55.601%  	55.32% 	00.28% 	          3432 	       17.50   { QcQh }
Hand 1: 	44.399%  	44.12% 	00.28% 	          2737 	       17.50   { 22+, AKs, AJs, AhTh, A9s, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah2h, KhQh, KJs, KhTh, Kh8h, QJs, QhTh, Qh8h, J9s+, Th8h, 8h7h, 7h6h, 6h5h, 5h4h, AKo, AhQd, AhQs, AJo, A9o, Ah3c, Ah3d, Ah3s, KhQd, KhQs, KJo, QJo, JTo }

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($10.50)
MP3 ($1.40)
CO ($5)
Hero (Button) ($22.85)
SB ($1.75)
BB ($10)
UTG ($12.40)
UTG+1 ($2.15)
MP1 ($6)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 4
6 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) Q, A, 7 (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.25) J (2 players)
BB bets $0.70, Hero raises to $2, BB calls $1.30

River: ($5.25) 10 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $7.40

My play here was pretty standard, I think, but I'm fully prepared to hear criticism of my open raise with 64s .
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-05-2009, 12:05 PM #2 (permalink)  
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The first hand, your range is way too wide! 22? 55? AKo? KQ? AQ with the ace of hearts? This guy must be crazy!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 01-05-2009, 12:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I didn't expect to actually run into those specific hands very often, but I do include stuff like that at times to account for the random bluffing you run into. Anyone bluff-raising on the flop is bluffing that turn like 100% of the time in my opinion, so I felt like there has to be some bluffing in there. I've also seen a ton of small pairs who love to put a preflop raiser on AK with postflop action like this, and they will treat their pair like the best hand as long as there is not an A or K on the board.

Still... let me try tightening it up a bit. Here's a range with hardly any bluffing:

Code:
Hand 0: 	48.402%  	47.99% 	00.41% 	          2027 	       17.50   { QcQh }
Hand 1: 	51.598%  	51.18% 	00.41% 	          2162 	       17.50   { 33+, AJs, AhTh, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah2h, KhQh, KJs, KhTh, Kh8h, QJs, QhTh, Qh8h, J9s+, Th8h, 8h7h, 7h6h, 6h5h, 5h4h, AhQd, AhQs, AJo, Ah3c, Ah3d, Ah3s, KJo }
So it looks like check/call is better? I think the only hands calling our raise that we beat are a few AhX hands, TT, and maybe some lower pocket pairs (especially if one is a heart). What do we do on a heart river (also Ah/Kh vs lower heart)? What about an A or K river? And on any other river? I'm pretty sure that for both, if we check/call the turn our best play is check/call most rivers. Since we're prepared to check/call on the river, I think calling here on the turn is optimal.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-05-2009, 03:04 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Don't include bluff hands in his range. Just go with the hands you think he would play this way for value, then make assumptions on how much he has to be bluffing. Your range for him is still incredibly wide.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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AFchung
Old 01-05-2009, 04:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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i think hand 1 range is too big

Quote:
I'm fully prepared to hear criticism of my open raise with 64s
what? lol. its a perfectly fine stealing hand
http://afchung.blogspot.com/
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-05-2009, 04:35 PM #6 (permalink)  
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yah, hand 2 is superior play

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Parasurama
Old 01-05-2009, 04:53 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
yah, hand 2 is superior play
Raise flop call turn is sexy too amirite?

But yeah, 64s is my favorite stealing hand other than like 79s or 86o
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-05-2009, 05:35 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I would play it exactly like hero. Even bet sizing which is rare. Raising flop is fine but I don't think it's the best play unless you want to be to raise this flop and able to show up with 64hh in the minds of your opponents.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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DoanDiggy
Old 01-05-2009, 06:15 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Don't include bluff hands in his range. Just go with the hands you think he would play this way for value, then make assumptions on how much he has to be bluffing. Your range for him is still incredibly wide.
All righty... let's see. I'll come up with a real range that might raise small on the flop and then value bet / semi-bluff the turn. This assumes a pretty wide flatting range, but at low stakes, this seems pretty realistic.

Code:
Board: Js 3h Jh 9h
Hand 0: 	37.749%  	37.20% 	00.54% 	          1195 	       17.50   { QcQh }
Hand 1: 	62.251%  	61.71% 	00.54% 	          1982 	       17.50   { KcKh, KdKh, KhKs, QQ-77, 33, AhKh, AJs, AhTh, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah2h, KJs, KhTh, Kh8h, QJs, QhTh, Qh8h, J9s+, Th8h, 8h7h, 8h6h, 7h6h, 7h5h, 6h5h, 5h4h, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AJo, KJo, QJo }
Most of them are obvious, but I should probably note a few points. I think KK and AA reraise preflop here like 90% of the time, but we can't discount them completely. By including 3 of the 12 combinations of AA and KK, I'm giving a little weight to overpairs that are beating us. 88-77: Given my betting pattern thus far, it's pretty feasible that villain thinks I have AhK, AhQ, AKh, or AQh and that their underpair is ahead. I'm not saying 88 and 77 are always betting the turn, but I think some underpairs are betting here, so I want to include a couple of those. As for AhK, it has fold equity and implied odds against a pretty good portion of my range, so a semi-bluff here would make a lot of sense.

So I'm not in good shape against a really loose preflop flat call (given our positions). If villain is more reasonable preflop, we should be able to trim this down a lot:

Code:
Board: Js 3h Jh 9h
Hand 0: 	44.152%  	43.18% 	00.97% 	           779 	       17.50   { QcQh }
Hand 1: 	55.848%  	54.88% 	00.97% 	           990 	       17.50   { QQ-88, 33, AhKh, AJs, AhTh, KJs, KhTh, QJs, 8h7h, 7h6h, 6h5h, 5h4h, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AJo }
I knocked out KK and AA entirely (these hands definitely want to stack off preflop vs UTG and don't want to invite the entire table into a multiway pot). I took out 77 because I think a better opponent is betting even fewer underpairs. I took out a lot of unsuited broadways (flatting an UTG raise with AJo from MP1 is pretty terrible IMO, but I left it in there anyways to account for some of those unexpected Js we might run into). I also took out Axs and the suited gapped connectors.

All that, and we're still not in good shape. Obviously shoving over this turn is bad without a read (e.g. that villain is aggressive postflop or gets married to pocket pairs on boards like this). I'm not sure I like a fold, though, especially since I have shown passiveness after his flop raise: I'm basically inviting a bluff or a semi-bluff from a hand that we're dominating.

If we call here, half our stack is in the middle now. I feel like a lot of the hands we are beating here probably fire again on the river, so are we committing ourselves to a river call? Regardless, I have like 0 fold equity over whatever villain is betting with here. My only hope is to get it in good against ThT, AhK, or some other underpair that is giving me no credit. Because of that, I think check/call, check/call river is vastly superior to shoving here. I'm on the fence in regards to check/call, check/fold river. I think the worst option, though, is to check/fold turn. After showing some passiveness, we're not loving our hand in this spot, but I think we're still in decent shape, and there's a pretty good chance that a low pair checks behind on the river.

Is that better? And really this was a tough spot to figure out mid-hand. I basically looked at my hand and said, "I have an overpair, I have some outs against a low flush, and he might be bluffing. I'm in!" Definitely bad play in retrospect, and I'll be playing it better next time I'm in a spot like this.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-05-2009, 06:43 PM #10 (permalink)  
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yah it's a dicey hand. And I think you played it ok. Or atleast, I woulda played it the same. But that's not to say I think it's the best line.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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