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KiMi
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10-26-2005, 11:41 PM
Post subject: Correct bet size
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
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at the moment i am playing at nl 0.10 \ 0.20
How much is the correct bet when I have the best hand and there is a:
1)flush draw
2)straight draw
3)no draw
also considering this is micro NL how much can I make this bets?
if you cant help me, can you recommend me a book?
thanks a lot
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I use a potsized bet with a draw on the board. Without draws I use 60-80% of the potsize. It doesn't matter if I actually hit something or as a continuation bet.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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These kind of vague questions cannot be answered..
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{This post has been removed}
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I'm assuming this is small stakes where the mojority of players will be loose/passive/fishy with some TAGGs thrown in.
In general with draws on the board you don't want to give the other guy correct pot odds to chase his draw. If he wants to chase you want to force him to make a mistake in doing so.
Lets say he has a flush draw. He needs pot odds of at least (IMO) 4 to 1. If you bet half the 'pot' he needs to call half the 'pot' to win one and a half the 'pot' (the pot and your bet) to chase his flush. In this case he is getting 3 to 1 pot odds. If he calls you are makeing money in the long term.
On the other hand if you bet too much you may push him out of the hand. You dont want this. You want him to chase so you can take his money when the flush card doesn't come (2/3 of the time).
So the moral of the story is this:
Bet big enough so that he is making a pot odds mistake by chasing (> half the pot) and small enough so that he is tempted to chase. (opponent dependant)
Note that all this can change based on specific situations and opponents. This is what reads are for.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I like to bet about half the pot. It's enough to give bad odds to the draws out there, while not risking too much when I bluff. You also want people to call you at bad odds, so you don't want to blow them out either.
I make a couple exceptions to this, of course. If I have bottom two pair, I tend to overbet, since I want people to get the heck out of my pot now. Similarly, if I flop a small flush, I tend to overbet, to chase out the A and K. I do it with JJ or TT as well if there are no overcards. Basically, any time I feel certain I have the best hand, but that hand is very, very vulnerable, I overbet. In these cases, I bet about 3/2 the pot.
I also like to mix in (maybe 10% of the time) a few 3/2 bets when I have a monster hand against observant opponents. They tend to bet interpreted as bluffs for some reason, and I can often break someone when I get raised and then I reraise with a push.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by silverfist
I like to bet about half the pot. It's enough to give bad odds to the draws out there, while not risking too much when I bluff. You also want people to call you at bad odds, so you don't want to blow them out either.
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At the stakes being discussed, half-pots are going to burn you. You'll have >2 opponents a large part of the time, so if the first one calls (for whatever reason) the other are getting great odds on the draw.
Half-pots are what I'd bet if I am the one drawing.
But KiMi, the others are also right and a great deal varies on the situation. E.g. with 4+ people on the flop and 2 live draws you might just shove on in. Or if the table is timid you might give one free card and blast at a safe turn.
Welcome to FTR, Land of It Depends.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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you have to bet more to chase out draws in these low stakes, they may never fold the nut flush draw ever
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by STIdrivr
you have to bet more to chase out draws in these low stakes, they may never fold the nut flush draw ever
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This is quoted for truth. You should be happy they won't fold it, charge them the full amount.
I also agree that 1/2 pot is no good. For one, it will give players behind odds. Secondly, are you going to fold every time a flush draw hits? I bet the pot to keep myself ahead those times I have to payoff.
I'll personally call 1/2 pot bets with a draw against most players; the'll pay off enough to make up for it.
Say the pot is $2, you call $1 with an OESD...now the pot is $4, most anyone is going to call $2 on the turn and $2 on the river with a top pair hand. That's 6:1 odds just drawing on the turn.
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KiMi
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
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thanks a lot everyone. I never see stuff on internet about correct betting, it is all about starting hands. from now on I´m taking notes on the players to see their raises on hands and how much they call on draws. also I understand that their stack size matters and that the number of players seeing the flop matters too.
Guess I love the game and want to master it myself.
Any book out there about NL that can improve my game?
I see that limit is a science, but no-limit is an art 
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.: Chess Player ::
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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If there is a draw there and im certain i have the best hand at the moment but the draw will beat me then it depends if the pot is big enough for me to be worried about losing it.
If the pot is small i will bet as much as i think they will call to chase the draw with bad odds (usually around potsized)
If the pot is already large and i dont want to risk being drawn out on i will usually just go all-in. You'd be surprised at how many people will see it as a bluff and call you anyway.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by KiMi
Any book out there about NL that can improve my game?
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Harrington on Holdem vol. 1, its a tourney book but it can be applied to cash games pretty well. There is some good stuff about pot odds and such in there.
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