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Common situation on small stakes games

  
 
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iain212
Old 07-19-2010, 07:21 PM     Post subject: Common situation on small stakes games #1 (permalink)  
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 Hey all
i have been building a bankroll multitabling on 0.05/0.1 on paradise. i keep getting the same situation and i never know what to do.

I get a mid pair in early position like 10's 9's or J's and put in a standard raise ( is this the right play to start with??) on the games i play you dont get 3 bet very often. Normaly only from the button trying to re steal, or if someone has a very strong hand.
Regulary i wil get 3bet when im out of position and the flop comes down low cards and i have an overpair. i lead out and get raised and never know what to do cos so often they have a higher pair.

Should i just avoid the situation all together by folding, or try an hit a set then check fold?



If some of the play i am describing is wrong feel free to correct me as i am trying to improve my game!
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Donachello
Old 07-19-2010, 07:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 You're saying you rarely get 3bet except by good hands and yet you call the 3bet? Are you planning to setmine? Do you have a plan? Doubtful. Post a hand example for critique and go from there.
[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

Problem officer...?
 
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supa
Old 07-19-2010, 07:57 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I don't play this high of stakes but I'll throw in my opinion.

There's alot of information needed to really answer your question;
villains stats, reads on the table, flop texture...In general tho, I think that if your worried that your beat in these situations you very well could be. Try to get to showdown as cheap as possilble.

[edit] Oh, and what Donachello said.
“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

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start using your brain more and vagina less
 
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Arjonius
Old 07-19-2010, 11:27 PM #4 (permalink)  
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The "right" way to play is whatever is most likely to work well again the opponents you're playing while taking into account the strengths and weaknesses in your own game.

So at certain tables, it's better to enter the pot for the standard 3x or so, while at others, limping may be preferable. And then there are tables where you need to lead for 4x or even 5x to have the same effect, while on others, 2.5x will do.
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kmind
Old 07-19-2010, 11:56 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 "why?"

Ask yourself that first.
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Vinland
Old 07-19-2010, 11:59 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Limping with 99-JJ UTG should not be done. You dont give villains a chance to make a mistake by calling preflop with a worse hand.
If villain has a K or A they will only hit the flop about 30% of the time. You need to pay attention to what kind of hands they call raises with. If you see them show down some Ax, Kx hands then vbetting will be unprofitable (when a K or A hits).
Against some villains you can check the flop to go for some pot control.

Get some hands though to show us these spots...
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daven
Old 07-20-2010, 12:54 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 first up, you can pretty much just insta-fold 99-TT-JJ to a preflop 3-bet if the games are as you describe. Exception may (and only sometimes) be when you are really deep (say 150bb+ effective) and you are confident that villain will auto-stack off his overpair when/if you hit your set. In this situation, you can bet-fold (bad) or check-fold a low flop - cos your call pre was only good if you are confident villain holds a pair that crushes yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iain212 View Post
I get a mid pair in early position like 10's 9's or J's and put in a standard raise ( is this the right play to start with??)
perfect, assuming your 'standard raise' is something like 3-5bb + 1bb for every limper

Quote:
Originally Posted by iain212 View Post
Regulary i wil get raised when im out of position and the flop comes down low cards and i have an overpair. i continuation bet (c-bet) and get raised and never know what to do cos so often they have a higher pair.
fixed your problem with terminology, cos this is messing with people's responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iain212 View Post
Should i just avoid the situation all together by folding, or try an hit a set then check fold?
ok, your question is how to play the flop when you have 99-JJ, right?
ok, so there are a few things to consider here
1) how many players to the flop?
2) are there overcards to your pair on the flop?
3) are you c-betting for value or as bluff?

ask yourself these questions and life may become easier. Also, before you bet you should have a plan for how you will react when faced with a raise. Sometimes it will be better to check, again checking with a plan for what to do facing a bet...
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Outlaw
Old 07-20-2010, 01:15 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Knowing what your early range is, what hands do you expect a villain to 3-bet you for value with? How does 99-JJ stack up vs. that range?
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Imthenewfish
Old 07-20-2010, 02:30 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Before you do anything, ask yourself "would an idiot do this?". If the answer is yes, don't do it.
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iain212
Old 07-20-2010, 12:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Hey
First of all thanks Daven for such a detailed response.
The games i play i either have 100BB or 200 BB stack. I think based on what you have said my best play would be to fold pre flop to a 3bet in mid or early position ( if i am UTG or UTG+1) on the tables where i have 100BB and call on the 200BB tables.

Almost everytime i find there range is 99+ and AK/AQ, so based on thiss i guess if i dont hit my set i shoudnt c-bet because im losing to an overpair and i wil have to fold to his raise assuming my belief of his range is correct. im not geting value because im unlikely to get called by a worse hand other than AK, i jsut dont like giving free cards to big aces when theres low cards on the flop.

the situation i reffering to is flops with lower cards than my pair. i am confident alot of the time i can stack off when i do hit my set so i guess when i am deep i should call and give up if i dont hit my set. Assuming i hit my set 1/ 7.5 then calling 1 euro when i have a stack of 20 euros is ok right?
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Penneywize
Old 07-20-2010, 03:06 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Before you do anything, ask yourself "would an idiot do this?". If the answer is yes, don't do it.
full of usefullness, newfish
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StarGrinder
Old 07-20-2010, 03:17 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Before you do anything, ask yourself "would an idiot do this?". If the answer is yes, don't do it.
lol
 
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Monsieur_chat
Old 07-20-2010, 03:57 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
Before you do anything, ask yourself "would an idiot do this?". If the answer is yes, don't do it.
Tilt.
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pdk1010
Old 07-20-2010, 04:26 PM #14 (permalink)  
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hey guys, im glad i read this post today cause ive been focusing alot on putting opp. on ranges and this is one of those situations where i think i know what im doing but pretty sure im not seeing something that i should be seeing so please correct me if im wrong.....

In this situation imo i think the range 99+, Aq, Ak is an extremely tight range, of course the read on our villain is going to determine alot of what his range is, but for a typical/average player at these stakes i would include 77, 88, ajs, kqs, (again i could be wrong)

in pokerstove we have roughly 65% equity against that range on a flop of 2 4 6 rainbow....so isnt it the most +ev thing to do to shove over his raise on the flop? my thinking is that there is a good percentage of the time that we are being position raised with big A or K that think we missed too, also with smaller pp than our own and really only the top 3 hands in his range are dominating us at the moment.....so question from me is

if we shove this 1 million times over his flop raise arent we going to make a shit ton of $$$?
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pdk1010
Old 07-20-2010, 04:33 PM #15 (permalink)  
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just thought about and shoving is no good either cause that limits his calling range to 77+ right? which we are only a 54% favorite....maybe call on the flop raise, then c/c, c/c???
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PokerTees
Old 07-20-2010, 09:09 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjonius View Post
The "right" way to play is whatever is most likely to work well again the opponents you're playing while taking into account the strengths and weaknesses in your own game.

So at certain tables, it's better to enter the pot for the standard 3x or so, while at others, limping may be preferable. And then there are tables where you need to lead for 4x or even 5x to have the same effect, while on others, 2.5x will do.
This probably feels like the most annoying answer, but i couldn't agree more!
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daven
Old 07-20-2010, 11:50 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iain212 View Post
Hey
First of all thanks Daven for such a detailed response.
The games i play i either have 100BB or 200 BB stack. I think based on what you have said my best play would be to fold pre flop to a 3bet in mid or early position ( if i am UTG or UTG+1) on the tables where i have 100BB and call on the 200BB tables.

Almost everytime i find there range is 99+ and AK/AQ, so based on thiss i guess if i dont hit my set i shoudnt c-bet because im losing to an overpair and i wil have to fold to his raise assuming my belief of his range is correct. im not geting value because im unlikely to get called by a worse hand other than AK, i jsut dont like giving free cards to big aces when theres low cards on the flop.

the situation i reffering to is flops with lower cards than my pair. i am confident alot of the time i can stack off when i do hit my set so i guess when i am deep i should call and give up if i dont hit my set. Assuming i hit my set 1/ 7.5 then calling 1 euro when i have a stack of 20 euros is ok right?
calling 1 into 20 is ok if you have a stack of 20, but only if the raiser also has a big stack
anyway, sounds sounds like you have a good plan for this situation now
nh
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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