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Chopper
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12-03-2007, 06:31 PM
Post subject: common HUD stuff
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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couple of quick things i want clarified, if possible:
- what is the difference between AF and A Frequency? i cant seem to find a correlation between a high AF and a high frequency.
- can anyone explain BB/100 for the table? does it measure money coming or leaving the table? i assume its pretty useless, i just have no clue what it could mean.
any other favorites stats you like?
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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A frequency is simply the number of times they bet or raised. So after 10k hands this could be in the thousands. More hands = higher aggressive frequency.
AF is standard. Higher AF = more aggressive.
I display: VPIP, PFR, Flop AF, Total AF, net $won and the player rating i have assigned to them
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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I like seeing how often they call c-bets, how often they c-bet, how often they bet turn.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i'm in love with fold to cbet and/or folds to flop bet myself. i dont display much. i combine the standard PT stats (vpip, pfr, AF) and then combine cbet/folds cbet/folds flop/wtsd. i put total frequency in there to watch how it relates to AF.
i know i asked the question, so i dont have a real clue, but i dont think your definition of frequency is right, daven. i have 100's of hands on some very aggressive players and i dont see them over 60. i see numbers ranging in the 30-55 range most common.
isnt it the number of times they bet/raise per 100 hands expressed as a %? i dont think its cumulative.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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MuddyWicket
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK, Brighton
Posts: 368
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statistics maybe lies but they would be less than worthless if they changed due to sample size other than to reduce deviation.
http://www.wnypoker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21892
That should answer your question Chopper.
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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Aggression Frequency is calculated as:
(Times Raised + Times Bet) / (Times Raised + Times Bet + Times Called + Times Folded)
Which as a percentage (which is what it shows up as) is the same is % Times Raised + % Times Bet. This number does not depend on VP$IP. A player with an aggression Freq of 60% bets or raises 60% of the time.
Aggression Factor is calculated as:
(% Raise + % Bet) / % Call
A high aggression factor just tells us that player doesn't call very often, not necessarily that they bet and raise a lot.
Aggression Factor has no use without looking at VP$IP.
Two players:
A 60/20/3
B 20/15/3
You can assume player A is actually way more aggressive, since he's active in way more pots post flop (he's a maniac), whereas player B is a standard TAG, who's mostly active when he's got the goods post flop.
Yet they've both got the same Aggression Factor.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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thanks, taxi. that was exactly what i thought it was.
and i like the comparison of the LAG and TAG. i have had a hard time explaining this to friends. they just cant grasp why a 80 vpip is so much more aggressive than a 15 vpip when they both have a 2 for AF.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
A frequency is simply the number of times they bet or raised. So after 10k hands this could be in the thousands. More hands = higher aggressive frequency.
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NO
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taxi
Aggression Frequency is calculated as:
(Times Raised + Times Bet) / (Times Raised + Times Bet + Times Called + Times Folded)
Which as a percentage (which is what it shows up as) is the same is % Times Raised + % Times Bet. This number does not depend on VP$IP. A player with an aggression Freq of 60% bets or raises 60% of the time.
Aggression Factor is calculated as:
(% Raise + % Bet) / % Call
A high aggression factor just tells us that player doesn't call very often, not necessarily that they bet and raise a lot.
Aggression Factor has no use without looking at VP$IP.
Two players:
A 60/20/3
B 20/15/3
You can assume player A is actually way more aggressive, since he's active in way more pots post flop (he's a maniac), whereas player B is a standard TAG, who's mostly active when he's got the goods post flop.
Yet they've both got the same Aggression Factor.
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YES
By the way, I now use Frequency instead of factor, since it is a much better indicator of aggression. Total AF is a decent indicator of of overall and preflop aggression, but street to street is much better as Agg frequency. Taking Folding into account as a weak, non aggressive play is important. AF doesn't account for folding. If a player folds on the flop 98 times and bets once and raises once, his AF will be through the roof.
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Taxi
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 226
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Taking Folding into account as a weak, non aggressive play is important. AF doesn't account for folding. If a player folds on the flop 98 times and bets once and raises once, his AF will be through the roof.
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/\/\Very important /\/\
You can work out the same by comparing them side by side too: take a player with AFactor of 5 but AFreq of 10%, we know he's not calling very often, due to the high AFactor, and he's not betting/raising very often, due to the low AFreq, so he's folding most of the time.
But by the time you've got a big enough sample size to work this out you should have a good read he folds lots anyway!
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
By the way, I now use Frequency instead of factor, since it is a much better indicator of aggression. Total AF is a decent indicator of of overall and preflop aggression, but street to street is much better as Agg frequency. Taking Folding into account as a weak, non aggressive play is important. AF doesn't account for folding. If a player folds on the flop 98 times and bets once and raises once, his AF will be through the roof.
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this is why most nits think they are TAGs, and is why, in another thread, i declare myself a nit. something i need to fix. i would rather be a true TAG, constantly putting pressure on your marginal hands, than a nit who folds to all the times you bet your marginals.
hence, wanting to know what some of these HUD stats are truly measuring. i am watching MY stats on tables, too. not for "image," but to see how i play, and why.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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sorry, stand happily corrected!
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