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shysti
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07-18-2006, 07:38 PM
Post subject: Comments: Emotional Mastery (Part 1)
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Internetz
Posts: 838
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{Discussion of: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-39197.htm }
great post, I believe this is the foundation for your sessions, tournaments, obviously without it you won't last very long. I've never deemed myself an emotional guy until I started playing poker.
But recently I have started to grasp control of my emotions. Basically to me tilt is : your subconcious is geared toward one result of whatever happens during a hand, session or tournament and expects a certain result, until the opposite happens.
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Yakuman
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
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AOK, as I just said, you aren't the one to talk about emotional mastery. This sort of advice is cheap.
If you puit your money in the pot with the best hand, then you did the best you could and you shouldn't feel bad.
If you donked your money away, then maybe you SHOULD feel bad for treating poker like a craps table. If your bad decisions hurt enough maybe you ought not to make them.
I've heard estimates that between 75% and 90% of all poker players lose money, which means that many people should not be playing, period. Taking a "pause" only delays the inevitable trip to El Busto.
Most bad players know that they are bad players, so they only do play money. They know their limits. I respect that.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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Yaku, anyone can become AT LEAST a break even player - Anyone who puts some time and effort in can become very good - Your response is pointless and just shows a lack of respect....
thanks AOK -
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Wyvver
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 125
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Really a great post.
Just search abit on wiki, there are some really interesting psychological theories that seem to apply to poker as well.
For example:
Quote:
Observer-expectancy effect
The observer-expectancy effect, in science, is a cognitive bias that occurs when a researcher expects a given result and therefore unconsciously manipulates an experiment or misinterprets data in order to find it.
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This is a huge problem in poker, because there is so much luck involved and such a big sample size needed, that you can basically talk yourself into believing whatever you want.
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Hawthrone effect
The Hawthorne effect is a phenomenon in industrial psychology first observed in the 1920s that refers to improvements in productivity or quality resulting from the mere fact that workers knew they were being studied or observed.
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At some point, I tried something:
Every hand I was involved, in my mind I would explain every action I took like I would if I was writing a post here on the board about the hand. This really helped me, because when I was about to do something stupid I would see the responses here on the board, and not do it ^^
Quote:
Self-fulfilling prophecy
A self-fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that, in being made, actually causes itself to become true.
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There are different definitions for it, but it also means that if you believe in something (REALLY believe in it) then unconsciously you influence your surroundings in a way that actually makes your believe come true.
This is usually not the really obious stuff, like you believing you are a good tennis player and joining a tennis club 
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- Don't Panic -
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
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If you're going to keep posting rebuttals to anything AOK posts, at least make some kind of sense.
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Originally Posted by Yakuman
If you puit your money in the pot with the best hand, then you did the best you could and you shouldn't feel bad.
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Of COURSE you shouldn't feel bad if you get a bad beat, but that's not how our brains instinctively work. Overcoming this requires effort and strategy just as much as other, more obviously tactical, versions of the game. Do you tell depressives "just pull yourself together, for god's sake"? Do you tell alcoholics "well don't have a fucking drink then"?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yakuman
If you donked your money away, then maybe you SHOULD feel bad for treating poker like a craps table. If your bad decisions hurt enough maybe you ought not to make them.
I've heard estimates that between 75% and 90% of all poker players lose money, which means that many people should not be playing, period. Taking a "pause" only delays the inevitable trip to El Busto.
Most bad players know that they are bad players, so they only do play money. They know their limits. I respect that.
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I didn't think I'd have to explain this to anyone on this forum, but here goes. Poker is a zero sum game (if you ignore the rake) so for some people to win, some people have to lose. If everyone who was playing real money poker won, what a wonderful utopia it would be. But lt's take your point more literally. If only winning players played, then suddenly, more than half of them would become losing players!! How about that?
Obviously I'm ignoring the fact that EVERYONE, good or bad, makes bad moves AND suffers from tilt from time to time. Or maybe you don't. In which case, YOU write an article on it because I for one would kill to know how you manage it. Seriously - there's a challenge for you to put your writing skills toward a purpose that isn't just abusive.
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Yakuman
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
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Blondino, the more you know about the dynamics of poker, the better you realize that bad beats, suckouts and lucky catches are just part of the game. Everybody goes on tilt sometimes, but you can at least be ready for it
As far as fish go, they will always be around. So if an honest inquirer says he's constantlylosing money or "breaking even," I'll tell him he needs to curtail his game.
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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nice post, aok.
pointless posts, Yakuman.
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yakuman
Blondino, the more you know about the dynamics of poker, the better you realize that bad beats, suckouts and lucky catches are just part of the game. Everybody goes on tilt sometimes, but you can at least be ready for it
As far as fish go, they will always be around. So if an honest inquirer says he's constantlylosing money or "breaking even," I'll tell him he needs to curtail his game.
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Stop calling people out, you're only making yourself look bad! And god forbid you actually want to contest someones advice, then you better actually contest it! AOK's post dealt with the psychology of TILT. You come into this post and shit on him and his efforts for no apparent reason, other then to offer gems like: "If you puit your money in the pot with the best hand, then you did the best you could and you shouldn't feel bad." You shit on him, and reiterate a fundamental law that is only MARGINALLY related to this article.
I'll say this again, if you want to call someone out on their advice (especially for an article with this much research), please make sure that you can put up a somewhat cohesive argument.
AOK, thank you for the thought provoking and well written post. This is a related article found on 2p2 titled "Betcha Can't": http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/i...ngelo0606.html
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Yakuman
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
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AOK, I never said anything about wiining _fast_. If you're still losing after, say, 100K hands, you either need to step up your game or go do something else. Not everybody is capable of being a winning player, because the skill set involves math, logic and emotional intelligence.
For example, I stink at golf. So I don't play. I 'll try my best in a recreational game with colleagues, but I have no fantasies that I'll ever be a winning player. I'm a Play Money golfer. What's wrong with that?
Or say somebody is the sort that goes all with TPTK all the time. Neither I nor you say this is a good idea. But pretend that somebody did. He's lose his stack regularly, probably blaiming it on "beat beats," "suckouts" or the ever-popular "doom switch." If he goes on tilt, that may actually be a good thing. If he keeps booting himself in the head enough times, maybe he'll quit donking away his buyins.
Tilt is your mind telling you something bad has happened. I agree that once should not play poker while emotionally distressed. Nevertheless, going off and walking the dog or sweeping the floor once it hits may not be the best solution.
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Wyvver
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 125
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Quote:
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Tilt is your mind telling you something bad has happened.
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No, that would be just a thought. Tilt is the emotional reaction
to it.
You dont need to tilt just to realise you did something wrong...actually, most of the time when you tilt, you did nothing wrong (except to tilt).
When your Aces get cracked by KK in a heads up all-in battle, you may tilt...still it was the right thing to get it all in.
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- Don't Panic -
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benny999
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,567
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Aok- thanks for sharing this. this topic is usually discussed in bits and pieces, but its nice to have some good fully laid out thoughts and strategies for it. I have played over a year now and this is one thing I really didnt focus enough on improving.
And it's important not to generalize tilting to being a bad player in general, eg yakuman's posts. I have won since I started over a year ago, with big thanks to posters like Aok and others in this website, but no doubt still experience tilt and have not worked on it as much as other equally important skills like folding marginals, reads, adapting, aggression, etc.
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bantam222
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 208
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yakuman
I've heard estimates that between 75% and 90% of all poker players lose money, which means that many people should not be playing, period. Taking a "pause" only delays the inevitable trip to El Busto.
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And most of that 75% to 90% of losing players aren't spending hours reading posts like this one working on getting better. Anyone can become a winning poker player if they put in the time and effort to do so. It might take them 2 weeks or 2 years but it can be done.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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Man, aok... I don't think I know anyone that can write about this topic as well as you... Along with your Psych of Losing, this is another GREAT post.
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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thenonsequitur
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
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AOK, you are a genius.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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This is definitely your strong point when it comes to the poker teachings, nobody is arguing your phsycology posts. Good job.
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
This is definitely your strong point when it comes to the poker teachings, nobody is arguing your phsycology posts. Good job.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Huh....What!?!?
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VicVega
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6
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There is not gonna be more parts?
Great post anyway, thanks
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aokrongly
thanks. I'll finish it in the next week or so.
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Great bump! I had forgotten about this one!
So??? where's part two then? Can't leave us hanging like that!!
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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coolrun
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
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Hey I have read alot of Tony Robbins' material from a business viewpoint - had never considered it from a poker perspective. Would love to hear more ....where's part two AOK ??
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UOPokerStudy
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10
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Chronic tilt single-handedly destroys bankrolls
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