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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by aokrongly
Quick update on 19 hand strategies. Well over 100 beginners have turned their games around in short order since I posted this. This has proven repeatedly to be a very effective and useable system for beginners.
If you are going to play it or are playing it and have questions, feel free to post them.
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Well, since you invited. I've never liked the 19 hands, although I'll concede it's worked for people. But we've been there, done that to death. Time to move on. A couple of Qs though
1. In my observation, since the legislation passed in November the games have gotten tougher. A lot of nit-style bookish TaGGs have hit breakeven stretches and downswings. I've seen the post on FTR. A lot of 'operation summer holidays' are way off track. Do you think games are tougher?
2. How do you think the 19 hands hold up in this environment? Would you make any changes to it?
3. Speaking for myself I hit a bad run since November and I've switched to playing PLO8 and tournaments with success. I haven't been able to play NL for a while now, but I want to go back to it. But I can't seem to motivate myself to play. I set myself up to play 4 hours or so but I can't get past 2 without losing a couple of buy ins and then I don't feel like playing any more. Do I just force myself to keep playing or what other mental strategies can u reccomend?
I can only speak for myself, but it's good to have you back here posting.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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SorenFrey
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
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first of all I'm at the very beginning of being a noob at hold'em. It's awesome to have a forum like this to look up the advice of players with skills. I'm trying out 19 hands at the moment, so far it looks pretty good, but I feel that even with what I feel is strong hands I get pushed out easily postflop. Someone will raise me a lot more than I feel is prudent calling, so I fold. I know this reaction is a definite way to start losing money, but it's just hard not playing more hands too. With the 19 hands and then getting pushed off when you hit one of those hands...just feels like I'm not in the game at all.
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SorenFrey
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
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So I'm still only on playmoney, sure someone will have something to say on that, but being a total noob and all, I figure I'd rather not waste my money here in the beginning where I'm completely blank. My playmoney thing has gone bust several times before, but then you get to start over. Today, playing on 3 tables concurrently I went from 1000 to about 10000 playmoney dollars...so so far at least, and at playmoney, the 19 hands system works for me.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Welcome Soren. Yeah, get a little dough on a site soon and play microstakes. Play vs real money is night and day. Nevertheless, you are going about learning the game the right way - cautiously.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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soren, thats how i did it a couple years ago.
i started in play cash games. learned to bully tables badly. learned the power of the "all in" push. built a huge stack, and got used to what they call "variance." i started getting seriously bad suckouts with people calling me with crap. i quickly learned...thats part of the game. better hands hold up...most of the time, but not always. and, YOU CANT FORCE SOMEONE TO FOLD.
i moved to play tourneys because i saw some WPT stuff on tv and thought it looked cool and full of glory. then, i saw Moneymaker take down the world series with some "made for tv" bluffs. i was hooked, and thought i was a king.
i deposited some money on pacific, $25, and worked it up to about $180 in a week. then, that damned variance hit. i cashed out $50 (so i could say i walked away a winner), and eventually lost the rest.
i found FTR and read about bankroll management and bonus chasing. i decided to give it another go, and my brother transferred me $25 on stars.
yadda, yadda, yadda, 18 months later i had about a $3000 bankroll. (by no means a meteoric rise)
bottom line is: you are doing it the right way so far. do a lot of reading here and post your questions in the forums. you have another tremendous advantage...VIDEOS. i would watch them all here on FTR first. there are other subscription sites that are reasonable, once you have the bankroll. (a couple members here started Grinderschool.com for very low stakes players; i would look at them.) there is software, you will undoubtedly hear about while here...like PokerTraker. again, when the bankroll dictates.
but, again, you are doing it the right way...slowly. hopefully, this is the beginning of a fulfilling hobby for you ...or a successful career, if thats your desire.
whatever your desire, you have come to the best site, in my opinion. it has helped me and many others.
welcome and take care.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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SorenFrey
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
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Warpe and Chopper, thanks for the words of advice, it's nice to know that I'm on the right track. So far it's all fun and games, and I hope that it stays that, but of course, I wouldn't be sad if I at some point could make some tidy money on the side of what I do now. I'll stay with 19 hands and read up as much as I can here on ftr. Thanks for the nice words
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BigBadBull
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
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Soren, from what you wrote about making 10x your bankroll in a week and losing it all, I have to assume you aren't using bankroll management. Read up on that before you put money in.
Maybe read a few blogs, where people write about bonus chasing and just starting out with very little and make themselves into good 200nl+ players.
Good luck starting out, hope it works out for you.
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SorenFrey
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigBadBull
Soren, from what you wrote about making 10x your bankroll in a week and losing it all, I have to assume you aren't using bankroll management. Read up on that before you put money in.
Maybe read a few blogs, where people write about bonus chasing and just starting out with very little and make themselves into good 200nl+ players.
Good luck starting out, hope it works out for you. |
I didn't lose any money yet at all, not even the playmoney I'm using so far, so no problem. I haven't started using real money yet. But when I start using real money, I definately will be careful with my money.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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id say play as many hands as u want, but just never call preflop unless its 4 way or more!
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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13 Buddhas
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1
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Well, I'm relatively new to FTR, and I'd like to say thank you. I'll be trying your 19 starting hands strategy and see how I fair.
So far so good! Thanks for writing this.
Cheers!
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Hmm......what seems to be missing in the original post?
Quote:
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AJ, KQ, QJ, call preflop if it's unraised. FOLD preflop if it's raised.
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No love for KJ?
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StevenCJames
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 12
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I just started using the 19 hand strategy and so far it's working very well.
My question is, when playing the 19 hands do you still take position into account when playing preflop, or do you just play the 19 hands from any position?
Thanks.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by StevenCJames
I just started using the 19 hand strategy and so far it's working very well.
My question is, when playing the 19 hands do you still take position into account when playing preflop, or do you just play the 19 hands from any position?
Thanks.
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And there lies one of the problems with this "strategy".
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by StevenCJames
I just started using the 19 hand strategy and so far it's working very well.
My question is, when playing the 19 hands do you still take position into account when playing preflop, or do you just play the 19 hands from any position?
Thanks.
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And there lies one of the problems with this "strategy". |
agreed, but you know that this is a beginner's strategy designed to get you off on the right foot while at ubermicro stakes, too. therefore, it isnt something that should be used for long.
position is something that HAS to be learned to be a bigger winner. but, while learning a little of the very basics such as cbetting, acting first/last post flop, betting draws, etc, this 19hand chart tosses position out the window...because it only contains the super premiums.
as you move into blind stealing, c/r'ing the cbettor, applying some ranges to your villain, etc, you will automatically move away from this, imo, and start adding more hands.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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I would suggest using this strategy until you finish reading all the beginner digest and start posting hands. Until you actually start your poker training I would use this as a jump off point. But I would start adjusting away probably after the first session and know why I am doing what I am doing.
Read this, then Renton's guide and then Sauce's guide and then Renton's ABCD theorem and lastly all of ISF's articles.
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tugger
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worcestershire, England
Posts: 221
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I'm putting this theory to the test right now.
Can't bring myself to play so tight in an MTT though, I like suited connectors too much.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tugger
I'm putting this theory to the test right now.
Can't bring myself to play so tight in an MTT though, I like suited connectors too much.
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this theory doesn't apply to MTT play
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tugger
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worcestershire, England
Posts: 221
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tugger
I'm putting this theory to the test right now.
Can't bring myself to play so tight in an MTT though, I like suited connectors too much.
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this theory doesn't apply to MTT play |
Jolly good.
Update... I was up a dollar in both rooms, but I've just been raped thanks to AK vs AA, so overall I'm down 50c in two rooms.
However, I'm sure this theory will work long term.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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theory still works. but, it has never proclaimed to be maximizing your profitability. its for beginners. those that learn the game as they go will soon drift away from these hands by adding others........correctly.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I'm surprised this crap hasn't been deleted already.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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tugger
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worcestershire, England
Posts: 221
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I hate cash rooms. Ended up losing $2 after aces got cracked by KQs.
Screw this theory, screw cash rooms. I'm staying with the SNGs and MTTs.
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StillDeadMoney
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Crazy Russian
Posts: 19
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Looking at a chart of starting hands will help you some, but you need to know why the hands are good in the first place for you to make any progress. Think about these questions: why do you need a stronger hand in early position to open compared to being in late position? Why are connected and suited cards more profitable when there are a lot of people in the hand compared to two high cards? The answers to these questions are on the forums and in the guides, though not explicitly stated.
Think about these questions.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
So i was gone for the weekend but wow...you lynch sdm, you don't shoot ragnar orrrr stax. dumbest fucking village. i hope we lost cause we deserve it. dumb fucks. im also drunk and high but srsly fuck u
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
No fears, people fuck up in this game all the time. Just make sure you deflect your failures by reminding people that SDM is somehow worse.
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tugger
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worcestershire, England
Posts: 221
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by StillDeadMoney
Looking at a chart of starting hands will help you some, but you need to know why the hands are good in the first place for you to make any progress. Think about these questions: why do you need a stronger hand in early position to open compared to being in late position? Why are connected and suited cards more profitable when there are a lot of people in the hand compared to two high cards? The answers to these questions are on the forums and in the guides, though not explicitly stated.
Think about these questions.
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I understand these questions, and the answers. I have already abandoned this theory, and started limping and calling raises with suited connectors in late pos. Yesterday I took down my biggest pot with 42s against TT... he flopped a set, I flopped a gutshot, and he bet 4 cents into a raised mulitway way, something like a 40c pot. I hit my straight on the turn, got into a raising war with him, and took down the rest of his stack. He was not happy, but at least he recognised his poor flop bet. We then got into an argument about whether or not 42s is suited connectors. I told him I didn't care what he calls suited connectors, I'm interested in any hand that can flop a straight flush, that's what I call suited connectors. Ok, if the hand can only flop a gutshot, and not an open ender, then I'll probably muck it, with the exception of suited aces. I don't normally call gutshots, it's only if I'm priced in, and that's rare. In fact, the 4c bet priced me out, until I consider implied odds.
This theory is fine if you want to earn a dollar every two hours, and provided your aces don't get cracked.
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