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Checking the turn

  
 
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biondino
Old 12-12-2006, 05:19 PM     Post subject: Checking the turn #1 (permalink)  
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This might be too vague a question, but... I have noticed in most hand histories from say $200NL upwards that the majority of turns are checked by both players. I can see a number of reasons to do this - keeping the pot small, slowplaying, inducing bluffs - but even so I'm surprised it happens quite so often.

I'd like to hear what the regulars think about this - in my skewed view it seems that it should be an exploitable play one way or another! At $50NL/$100NL it hardly ever seems to happen and I'm wondering whether I should be checking more.
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Irisheyes
Old 12-12-2006, 08:01 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Learning to check turns has played a HUGE role in improving my game over the last while.
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biondino
Old 12-12-2006, 08:51 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Irish, I'm trying to improve myself here, tell me HOW it's improved your game
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Irisheyes
Old 12-12-2006, 09:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Yeah sorry, I could write a book on this probably.

Here's a hand from a min ago. Note the play is the same if the Q is on the flop instead of the turn.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($84.62)
SB ($176.44)
BB ($1215.60)
UTG ($443.07)
MP ($681.10)
Hero ($1100.05)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, Q. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $20, 3 folds, UTG calls $16.

Flop: ($46) 3, 9, 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $32, UTG calls $32.

Turn: ($110) Q (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks,

River: ($310) J (2 players)
UTG bets $100, Hero calls $100.

Final Pot: $310

Results in white below:
UTG has 4s 4c (one pair, fours).
Hero has As Qs (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $310.
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bbqsquirrel
Old 12-13-2006, 05:08 PM #5 (permalink)  
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If I am OOP holding a good but vulnerable hand like TPGK, I almost always bet. I need to make the drawers pay to chase. As I'm OOP I can save my bluff inducing check on the river
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 12-13-2006, 05:23 PM #6 (permalink)  
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so in the Irish HH above, the ONLY reason we are checking is to induce a bluff from a worse hand, right? Because we have a non-scary board, we can pull this off - Does it change if the board is more co-ordinated than this? Or is this the only way to get value from a worse hand and to get to a cheaper showdown against a better hand? I guess betting the turn when the Q comes is going to shut out most players with nothing here....

Great question Biondino - I need to work on this for sure -
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griffey24
Old 12-13-2006, 07:16 PM     Post subject: turn check #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ
so in the Irish HH above, the ONLY reason we are checking is to induce a bluff from a worse hand, right? Because we have a non-scary board, we can pull this off - Does it change if the board is more co-ordinated than this? Or is this the only way to get value from a worse hand and to get to a cheaper showdown against a better hand? I guess betting the turn when the Q comes is going to shut out most players with nothing here....

Great question Biondino - I need to work on this for sure -

I don't think the only reason we are checking the turn is to induce a bluff from a worse hand, though that is certainly a part of it.

I know for me, I check through a lot of turns to keep the pot small, if I have a hand with showdown value. A lot of times villain will call our flop cont bet, hoping to check raise us on the turn. If we check through the turn, we can flat call bluffs, and smaller bets from hands that beat us on the river.

Avoiding the check raise is clearly tied in with keeping the pot size under control.
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Halv
Old 12-13-2006, 08:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Or is this the only way to get value from a worse hand and to get to a cheaper showdown against a better hand?
Sí, señor.

Sometimes we can do it with a semi-big hand to underrepresent and bet/raise the river for value, making opp believe that we're the one on the draw and are raising as a bluff.

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