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johnny_fish
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08-03-2006, 06:50 PM
Post subject: Check-raising the flop after a preflop raise
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I almost never do it. The only occasion I might do it is if I'm up against a short stack and am committed anyway, so I can get an extra bluff out of him that way.
When is it a good time to do this in general? Against floaters I like betting the flop, c/r turn better..
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I think I wan't to start doing this with overpairs so I can ctart to do it with AK unimproved.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think I wan't to start doing this with overpairs so I can ctart to do it with AK unimproved.
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yep
i do it with everything from Ace high unimproved to a set and even the nut straight.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think I wan't to start doing this with overpairs so I can ctart to do it with AK unimproved.
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Let's say we c/r every raggy flop with JJ+/AK and a small % of other stuff.
What is the advantage of doing this over just cbetting everything?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think I wan't to start doing this with overpairs so I can ctart to do it with AK unimproved.
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Let's say we c/r every raggy flop with JJ+/AK and a small % of other stuff.
What is the advantage of doing this over just cbetting everything? |
1st, we need to actually hit a raggy flop. If all we do is play premiums and pps then when we c/r a raggy flop our range is predictable. fwiw, playing/raising any two just once every 2or 3orbits does wonders for table image.
My thoughts on this are two fold
i either want my opponent to fold too much or i want him to make that horrible call where he is smoked.
If o constantly c/r a rg flop with both a mised hand and a set then how long before opp thinks 'i have AA fuck you' alternativly how long before he thinks 'meh AA no good here' becasue we c/r'ed our set before.
Therefore im looking either for a folding machine or someone who will fall in love with their hand just once.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Let's say we c/r every raggy flop with JJ+/AK and a small % of other stuff.
What is the advantage of doing this over just cbetting everything?
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You get an extra bet out of opponents who habitually bet when checked to and often get another one when they call and then fold to your lead on a brick turn. I c/r with made hands early and draws later. You still need to c-bet obv, but it adds to your unpredictability and gets you more action, imo. Used to be a c/r was considered a really strong move but it's becoming so commonly used as a bluff that a lot of players seem to dig their heels in now and will often play back with second best hands.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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If your hand is good enough, why not check/call all the way down if each street is a rag and give him more chances to bluff away his chips? If we check-raise the flop, we really want villian to fold, correct?
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
If your hand is good enough, why not check/call all the way down if each street is a rag and give him more chances to bluff away his chips? If we check-raise the flop, we really want villian to fold, correct?
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Sometimes. Sometimes we want him to think we want him to fold. Any decent opponent's radar goes up pretty quickly when you check/call the flop and the turn and then (usually) lead the river, so more often that line gives you check/call check/check bet/fold and you lose value.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
My thoughts on this are two fold
i either want my opponent to fold too much or i want him to make that horrible call where he is smoked.
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How do you get them to do that simultaneously? That's something I just don't understand. Or am I thinking the wrong way about this?
The major thing I don't understand about poker is how you can get a significant edge vs. players who also know the fundamentals (hand values, pot odds, equity, position, etc).
I guess the main thing is getting more information from others than the other way around. So mixing up your own play while looking for patterns in opponents play.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
I guess the main thing is getting more information from others than the other way around. So mixing up your own play while looking for patterns in opponents play.
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To quote gabe, "bingo bango bongo."
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i give dumb action on cheap streets at times to encourage people to overplay their hands with me.
I also check rather than bet a whole lot more than most players
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