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Check-raised all in. Hero?

  
 
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AFchung
Old 08-01-2008, 11:21 PM     Post subject: Check-raised all in. Hero? #1 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($2.74)
Button ($1.35)
SB ($1.14)
BB ($3.93)
UTG ($2.56)
UTG+1 ($2.18)
MP1 ($2.01)
MP2 ($2.97)
Hero ($1.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q, A.
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.12, 4 folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.41) 3, Q, J (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.24, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.18.

Turn: ($0.89) 7 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($0.89) T (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.3, MP1 raises to $1.65, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $1.49

Results in white below:
MP1 doesn't show.
Outcome: MP1 wins $1.49.
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daven
Old 08-01-2008, 11:38 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 pre-flop is perfect.
your bet-sizing post-flop isn't.

Your flop re-raise should be bigger, make raises relative to the size of the pot rather than the size of the opening bet - try raising to $0.35.

ok, explain why you checked the turn behind. I prefer betting here, but checking can be good in some situations here too. It's the thought process/motivation leading to your decision to check that is important.

When you get to the river you should bet if you think you're ahead or that you will fold a better hand. In either case you should bet pot, then you are pot committed and have to call the check-raise anyway.There isn't much you're ahead of with TPTK on this board, so checking behind is probably smarter. That;s why i prefer betting the turn.

as played, yuck. fold i guess, but think about your line and your play that resulted in this horrible spot.

Well chosen hand to learn from
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Hawk
Old 08-01-2008, 11:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I think there is a good chance you are beat here, but your bets are so weak you don't even look like you have a decent pair so I might call as played.
 
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poker_pup
Old 08-01-2008, 11:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Absent any reads on the villian, I would fold also. Next time, bet 1/2 of the pot (or more) on the turn so he doesn't get a free card to outdraw you on the river.
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AFchung
Old 08-02-2008, 01:02 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
pre-flop is perfect.
your bet-sizing post-flop isn't.

Your flop re-raise should be bigger, make raises relative to the size of the pot rather than the size of the opening bet - try raising to $0.35.

ok, explain why you checked the turn behind. I prefer betting here, but checking can be good in some situations here too. It's the thought process/motivation leading to your decision to check that is important.

When you get to the river you should bet if you think you're ahead or that you will fold a better hand. In either case you should bet pot, then you are pot committed and have to call the check-raise anyway.There isn't much you're ahead of with TPTK on this board, so checking behind is probably smarter. That;s why i prefer betting the turn.

as played, yuck. fold i guess, but think about your line and your play that resulted in this horrible spot.

Well chosen hand to learn from
on the flop i was betting for value. the reason i checked on the turn was because the 3rd diamond came out and i think i was scared of that at the time.

when he checked the river, i figured i had him beat since i dont think he would check a better hand to me. thats why i stuck out a small value bet to get called and win a slightly bigger pot, but instead i got owned by CRAI

thanks for everyone's input so far. more is always welcome! i have lots to learn
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Stacks
Old 08-02-2008, 01:10 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Third diamond didn't come out till the river.
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animal_chin
Old 08-02-2008, 05:16 AM #7 (permalink)  
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He probably doesn't have a flush. Only an idiot would call with a 3 to a flush to a flop reraies. I expect something like QT or possibly an retardidly played AK here. Anyhoo I think you are beat here aswell.
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AFchung
Old 08-02-2008, 06:58 AM #8 (permalink)  
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i ended up folding thinking i was beat by QJ or QT. maybe even a slowplayed set
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tom
Old 08-03-2008, 04:08 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
ok, explain why you checked the turn behind. I prefer betting here, but checking can be good in some situations here too. It's the thought process/motivation leading to your decision to check that is important.
would it correct to check the turn for pot control reasons?
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AFchung
Old 08-03-2008, 04:24 AM #10 (permalink)  
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i didn't bet the turn because of tom's pot control reason. i didn't want to increase the size of the pot with only TPTK. my river bet was a small value bet given that he checked all turn and river so i figured i probably had him beat
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2008, 04:28 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Bet the turn because draws don't call the river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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redih
Old 08-03-2008, 08:34 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Bet the turn because draws don't call the river.
Very good beginners advice.
Trust your parachute.
 
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jyms
Old 08-03-2008, 08:43 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
ok, explain why you checked the turn behind. I prefer betting here, but checking can be good in some situations here too. It's the thought process/motivation leading to your decision to check that is important.
would it correct to check the turn for pot control reasons?
Dont control the pot with two draws out there.
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Erpel
Old 08-04-2008, 02:39 PM #14 (permalink)  
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In this hand - when the flop comes I think I am ahead almost always and am ready to conditionally commit my entire stack. I have $1.83 behind and the pot is already $0.41 - that's only 4.5 times the pot, meaning that two pot sized bets will see us go all in.

When I say conditionally I mean that there is a straight draw on the board. My plan for the hand is this: Put in a big bet on the flop (so straight draws cannot profitably call) - if a card that completes a likely straight comes on turn and/or river I will play pot control. Otherwise I will assume I am ahead and look to get my entire stack in the middle.

On the flop MP1 bets $0.06 into $0.41. This is called a weak lead and can mean many things. One of the things it can mean is that he's on a drawing hand and he's hoping by setting his price here he may get others to call instead of bet and get cheap cards to improve his hand.

One way to handle the weak lead is to simple pretend that he checked and bet as if he hadn't bet. For me, that would be a pot sized bet. Note that with a straight draw on the board I am keen to price out the draw, thus increasing the size that I would prefer to bet. However, the more important thing here is that I have decided I am a favourite in this hand as long as the straight on the board does not complete - so I am looking to get all in before the straight completes - pot sized bet on flop and pot sized bet on turn will basically put me all in.

For reference I will also mention how to determine a raise size if you choose to raise the bet. If a pot is $0.40 and you bet $0.40 (a pot sized bet) you are telling your opponent to call $0.40 for a chance to win $0.80. This is often mentioned as pot sized bets lay 2 to 1 odds. People tend to get into bet sizes between 1/2 pot and pot (with both 2/3 and 3/4 being popular), but to keep the maths simple I'll concentrate here on pot sized bets that lay 2 to 1 odds.

When the opponent bets $0.06 into the $0.41 pot how much should you raise if you your raise to be a pot sized bet? This is calculated in a stop and go fashion - first we assume that you have a call, see what the pot becomes and then raise what the pot has become. Your call portion is $0.06 making an interim pot of $0.53. You make a pot sized bet into the interim pot of $0.53. Now we blend it together - The pot is $0.41, the bet is $0.06 and you raise it $0.53 to $0.59. That's a pot sized bet. A simple way to calculate which raise size is a pot sized bet is to take the bet size, multiply by 3 and add the size of the pot. ($0.06 * 3 + $0.41).

Now, if we ignore the small bet as a check or decide for whatever other reason to raise to $0.41 and get one caller, the pot will be $1.23 and you will have $1.42 behind. If you then on the turn bet $1.42 into $1.23 this will seem like a bit of an overbet, which can be a bit intimidating.

An option could be on the flop to pretend the small bet is an actual bet and take it into consideration when you size your flop raise. I'd only have bet pot, but since you already bet into it I guess I need to bet, like $0.50 for a similar effect! The 'overbet' on the pot is (imo) slightly less threatening because it is in part justified by the bet. If you raise to $0.50, the turn will see a pot of $1.41 and $1.33 behind - perfect for an all in. Also $0.5 is a perfect 'lazy' bet size, which hopefully shouldn't cause too much alarm.

On the turn - I'm looking to get the money in while my hand is most likely the best hand - I'd bet.

The river completes a flush, a 98, K9 and AK straight - but the opponent could have missed those straights and flushes and be thrilled he just made his pair of tens. He thinks you're weak but might call him with a 7 or 3 if he's lucky...
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