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martindcx1e
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05-22-2006, 07:04 PM
Post subject: Check-Raise Flop, Check Turn is a sign of what?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Player A is UTG
Player B is in CO
Pre-Flop
Player A limps, folds, Player B raises to 4x BB, folds, Player A calls.
Flop
  
Player A checks, Player B bets 2/3 pot, Player A min-raises, Player B calls.
Turn
Player A checks - What is this a sign of?
Assume neither player is an extreme LAG or TAG and 100BB stacks.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Man that's really read dependant..
Generally though, it would mean the minraiser has something on the flop, but not the nuts, so he got a little scared he might be beat, possibly by seeing the overcard. Like in your example he has 99/TT (and 33-77) or a weak 8 (doubtful) or a strong 2 (maybe).
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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I heard someone say that when they see this line they rarely see the check-raiser call a turn bet.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Well, yeah.. he thought he had it on the flop but then ran scared on the turn, so I'd say he could fold to a turn bet plenty of the time. I dunno about betting with air though, he might just want to stick to his hand and see it through..
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Well, yeah.. he thought he had it on the flop but then ran scared on the turn, so I'd say he could fold to a turn bet plenty of the time. I dunno about betting with air though, he might just want to stick to his hand and see it through..
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so should player b bet because he knows player a is scared now?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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If I haven't been playing too loose and he hasn't been playing too loose (ie he has shown he can lay down a hand) I probably bet here. Also depends on my actual hand.. do I have some solid outs left or not? I'm always more inclined to semi-bluff than stone cold bluff. Like if I have AT I might bet here and if I have 73 I won't unless my read is strong that he will fold.
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samsonite2100
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Your loosing, lolololololololololol
Posts: 858
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Sometimes it also means that the turn helped player A's hand become invincible. Like if he had J8 in this example.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I think he usually thinks you made a weak cbet , so you should bet.
He either thinks you are weak or he is invincible so you should bet, but if he stays with you, you arent putting any more in this pot.
edit: Wo000oooooo0000ooootah...... 9th post, 1st vote
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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c/r'er thinks you have jackshit but has something himself.
Normally most of these players suck too much postflop to really raise your cont bet anyway, so when you call the miniraise (as you prob should anyway) they get scared on the turn when you get aggro at them again.
Of course its also a way fo playing the nuts when your opp is way behind... but thats a pretty obvious line from a donish player
being cold called or miniraised by a good/thinking player is much more scary here imo.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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generally it's a sign of weakness
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
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Location: No hindsight for the blind.
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The fact that he limp-calls UTG says pocket pair to me. I'll say he has JJ and wanted to get a c-bet/find out if his jacks are good, then hit the nut boat and decided to slow play it.
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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80% of the time I'd say it's weakness if you have an overpair - it usually means they have some pair here.
Now - if you're check-raised on the turn as well, no question at all - that's pure strength and you gotta put down the non-nuts.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
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I don't see this as weakness. The only hands he might hold which would be scared by the jack are 99-TT (maybe, just maybe, 33-77). To me it looks like a donk thinking "I suckered him into calling my check-raise on the flop - let's try it again on the turn, hyuk hyuk".
Unless I have JJ-AA or hit with my AJ, I am checking here.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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i have to agree with Pelion on this one - Ck raising the turn with only a mini raise says (to me) that he is putting you on overcards only and this flop couldn't have helped you - I put player A on a small pocket pair. If he is clever enough to check raise the turn, give him credit and get away - But that is a pretty tricky play and not a lot of players can make moves like that...I think you bet the turn and if you get called or ck. raised then your done with firing at it - just remember a check usually means weakness - if they check raise you sometimes good for them - but I fire at the turn here
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