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Check-call twice then donked into

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AFchung

11-20-2008, 05:28 AM Post subject: Check-call twice then donked into

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

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Can we ever find a fold here? It's pretty obvious what villain has

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flow

SB ($5)
BB ($4.70)
UTG ($4.73)
UTG+1 ($2)
Hero (MP1) ($5)
MP2 ($14.67)
CO ($7.07)
Button ($17.57)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J

, J

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Button calls $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.62) 7

, 4

, J

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, Button calls $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.12) 2

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.75, 1 fold, BB calls $1.75

River: ($5.62) 9

(2 players)
BB bets $2.25 (All-In), Hero ?????

Total pot: $10.12 | Rake: $0.45

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AFchung

11-22-2008, 12:21 PM

#2 (permalink)

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bump. help anyone?

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

Illfavor

11-22-2008, 03:34 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: Denton, TX

Posts: 1,152

Bet more on turn, cringe-call river?

Ich grolle nicht...

oskar

11-22-2008, 07:36 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Are you serious about the river? The question is call or raise, am I right? You're never folding hopefully.
His line looks like a flush, so I would just flat call.

a500lbgorilla

11-22-2008, 07:38 PM

#5 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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Posts: 8,379

Seeing as the opponent is allin, i'd say there's no difference between calling and raising. And i'd raise!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

oskar

11-22-2008, 07:48 PM

#6 (permalink)

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lol @ me never paying attention.
I guess this makes it even easier. - The best thing you can do there is to start committing him on the flop. Just a little more on the flop (they won't notice) and you can bet a couple of blinds more on the turn, and he won't know what hit him when he has 1/4 of the pot left on the river.
The way it came down, I guess his line is close implied-odds wise. Bet just a little closer to pot, and he's always loosing money by calling you down.

sarbox68

11-22-2008, 09:20 PM

#7 (permalink)

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You're not folding with half your stack in the middle by the turn...

Not sure I agree w/ making the turn bet larger. Remember, you want draws to stay in the pot for the wrong odds. Blowing them out with a pot sized turn bet is a bad idea. They're 4:1 against to call you on the turn, and there's no way they can make that call correctly even with implieds w/ a flush draw.

Your turn bet denied them proper drawing odds, and set up to get the rest of the effective stack in the middle on the River.

Robb

11-22-2008, 10:12 PM Post subject: Re: Check-call twice then donked into

#8 (permalink)

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Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Insta-fistpumpin-snap call, imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFchung

Can we ever find a fold here? It's pretty obvious what villain has$0.45

Results oriented. He only has to have a non-flush 25% of the time to make the call profitable.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

speedcake

11-23-2008, 12:52 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location: Tampa

Posts: 434

Don't feel bad:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.45)
Button ($8)
SB ($22.70)
BB ($19.35)
UTG ($7.25)
Hero (MP) ($10.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

, K

UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB calls $0.40, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($2.05) 2

, J

, Q

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.60, 1 fold, BB calls $1.60, UTG calls $1.60

Turn: ($6.85) 3

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $4, 1 fold, UTG calls $4

River: ($14.85) 6

(2 players)
UTG bets $1.15 (All-In), Hero calls $1.15

Total pot: $17.15 | Rake: $0.80

a500lbgorilla

11-23-2008, 12:59 AM

#10 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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oh my funloving god, if speedcake says call I think we should fold!

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

oskar

11-23-2008, 02:14 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Your turn bet denied them proper drawing odds, and set up to get the rest of the effective stack in the middle on the River.

Not if he's getting payed on the river 100% of the time - which he is, and we know it because we are the ones who will pay. I'm not for a pot sized bet, but a little closer to pot on flop and turn, and he doesn't get the implied odds to call.

I don't ever recall anyone agreeing with me on this. - Correct me if I'm wrong. On draw heavy boards if the villain has less than 10x the pot size on the flop, and the board is draw heavy, I always bet a little more for that exact reason. If you bet 3/4 to 4/5 instead of 2/3, it does make a difference by the river, and I don't think it shifts his range in any significant way.

speedcake

11-23-2008, 02:20 AM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2007

Location: Tampa

Posts: 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

oh my funloving god, if speedcake says call I think we should fold!

huh?

Robb

11-23-2008, 03:27 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

On draw heavy boards if the villain has less than 10x the pot size on the flop, and the board is draw heavy, I always bet a little more for that exact reason. If you bet 3/4 to 4/5 instead of 2/3, it does make a difference by the river, and I don't think it shifts his range in any significant way.

I don't see a draw heavy board, at least not on the flop.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

sarbox68

11-23-2008, 04:53 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Your turn bet denied them proper drawing odds, and set up to get the rest of the effective stack in the middle on the River.

Not if he's getting payed on the river 100% of the time - which he is, and we know it because we are the ones who will pay.

I'm sorry but wat?? I am completely confused by this......

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

I don't ever recall anyone agreeing with me on this. - Correct me if I'm wrong. On draw heavy boards if the villain has less than 10x the pot size on the flop, and the board is draw heavy, I always bet a little more for that exact reason. If you bet 3/4 to 4/5 instead of 2/3, it does make a difference by the river, and I don't think it shifts his range in any significant way.

I wouldn't exactly call this a draw heavy board... on the flop or turn. And I got no beef with a PSB on the flop. I'm not suggestion he slowplay this with two spades on the board. But with a total blank on the turn, he's looking at 4:1 on the river. I want him to stay in the pot. So all betting too big does is guarantee that I a) don't get my Turn bet called and b) get zippo out of the river when, 4 outta 5 times a spade doesn't hit. I'll lose to the flush 1 outta 5 times to boost my odds of getting 1 or 2 more streets of value outta his draws the other 4 times.

11-23-2008, 05:34 AM

#15 (permalink)

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What's your question?

I do bet more on the flop, probably pot it because calling with a flush draw on this board is standard for donks

sarbox68

11-23-2008, 06:18 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

What's your question?

I do bet more on the flop, probably pot it because calling with a flush draw on this board is standard for donks

question was re: Oskar's response. I never said anything about not PSBing the flop... that's a no-brainer. My comment was about not overbetting the turn 'cause we're afeared of the flush draw. Didn't understand the "not if he's getting payed on the river" piece in that context.

I think we ended up on a tanget somewhere... not that I'm particularly interested in pursuing it unless there's something really substantial at the end....

11-23-2008, 06:51 AM

#17 (permalink)

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I pot because some people will call a psb with a gutshot (not likely) or a flush draw (std.)

oskar

11-23-2008, 02:10 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Your turn bet denied them proper drawing odds, and set up to get the rest of the effective stack in the middle on the River.

Not if he's getting payed on the river 100% of the time - which he is, and we know it because we are the ones who will pay.

I'm sorry but wat?? I am completely confused by this......

If you know you're going to pay the river, even if the flush hits, hen he's getting 4:1 on a call.
With a little more you turn this from a break-even situation if he has a flush draw to a +EV one if he has the flush draw, without shifting his calling range too much if he has a weaker made hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

I don't see a draw heavy board, at least not on the flop.

Result oriented.

my mistake

I would not pot the flop either, because I'm not potting the flop on a c-bet if I miss here.
Also, it's not necessary to pot it to commit him considering stack : pot size

oskar

11-23-2008, 02:40 PM

#19 (permalink)

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On further review I realize that he's drawing to 7 and not 9 outs, so maybe the op's line was perfect after all.

11-23-2008, 03:36 PM

#20 (permalink)

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I wouldn't cbet this three way at all, so why does it matter if I don't cbet it with a pot in this situation? I either pot with a hand or check without a hand.

oskar

11-23-2008, 04:27 PM

#21 (permalink)

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I would... more often than not.
Not too much there to hit on this board. Depending on opponents of course.

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

11-23-2008, 05:06 PM

#22 (permalink)

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overcards peel because your opponents are like I'm drawing to a king or a queen!!
it's NL5 dude

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