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dalecooper
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02-08-2005, 01:21 PM
Post subject: Check or bet the turn here?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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I have AK suited in early position and raise 3xBB. Two callers. Flop is QQT with only one of my suit. I bet half the pot; first guy folds, second guy flat calls. Turn is an 8, not in my suit, so I have only the gutshot draw and two overs going to the river.
Bet or check? If I check and he bets, fold here?
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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These situation are where I lose money... he could slowplaying, have a weak kicker to his trips, be playing 2pr badly or on a draw. You tried to buy the pot, it failed and you didn't improve. Lately I have been letting it go as well as limiting my betting from EP on a draw to very specific situations (but I play micros where anyone and everyone calls anything, this may work better at your stakes).
I semi-bluff from early position into 1-2 players at most vs reasonably tight players into med-sized pots (limped pots aren't worth the risk and large pots will get called down, probably by multiple people). You lose a lot of folding equity when bluffing into 3+ people and if you get called by multiple people, it makes it hard to get away from that big a pot. Another 1/2 pot sized semi-bluff called down here and I have a hard time dropping it on the river. (bad sed, stupid leak, go play limit) Late position semi-bluffing is so much easier.
- sed
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Since he only called, he most likely does not have the other Q or the 10 unless he is slow playing. Depends on your read on him. He could possibly have the straight too which he may have thought worth trying for on the flop. I would bet 1/2 pot especially if this is lower limits. If he raises, you fold. If he calls, you may pull something - hopefully the jack. If he folds, you win. Still a tough call, but if you just check, he's going to bet to try to steal pot.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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One additional piece of information - if I bet about half the pot on the turn, it would be roughly 2/3 of the other player's remaining stack. So the odds are good that he would raise me, going all-in, whether he has the cards or not.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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If you decide to bet the turn and he has 3/4 of the pot left in his stack, put him all in. It's one of those MTT-like stuations where you want the hard decision on him. Like if he raised, you wouldn't call. Push the little stack around a bit.
- sed
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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In the actual hand, here's what went down:
First part was as described above. On the turn I decided to continue with a half pot bet despite missing my hand. I actually failed to notice that his stack wasn't that large (dumb mistake) until after I bet, which gave him the driver's seat; but since his raise was so small relative to the pot I had to call even with, essentially, no hand at all. Had I noticed the size of his stack I probably would have either checked or bet enough to put him all-in (not sure which). The check might have saved me money though, since Mr. Moron had called my pre-flop raise with QT and flopped a full house.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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You guys have to seriously re-evaluate the way you play AK post flop in NL...Its not a good hand unless you hit or take it down on the flop....just roll over and die when you get called.
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Excalibur
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 81
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I think he has the T...
Or he slowplays the Q, of course...
And watch out for PP's...
If you bet he can hide behind you again, so I suggest you check here!
Fold If he bets...
If he also checks then you get to see the river for free.
If the river is an A or K, bet and try him out... Fold to raises...
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I love the feel of Hold'em control...
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Excalibur
I think he has the T...
Or he slowplays the Q, of course...
And watch out for JJ...
If you bet he can hide behind you again, so I suggest you check here!
Fold If he bets...
If he also checks then you get to see the river for free.
If the river is an A or K, bet and try him out... Fold to raises...
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No way man. Bet 1/2 the pot here, if he comes over the top you fold. If he just calls then see your river card. If its a blank, you can either check it to him and if he bets you have to fold. Or you can bet the same amount again hoping he was on a draw and will now fold.
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I'd have set him all in on the turn - I read this one bad, thought he might be on a mid pair, 66-88 ish, and I figured he would fold if he was set all in.
But I was wrong 
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Excalibur
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 81
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
No way man. Bet 1/2 the pot here, if he comes over the top you fold. If he just calls then see your river card. If its a blank, you can either check it to him and if he bets you have to fold. Or you can bet the same amount again hoping he was on a draw and will now fold.
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That's very risky... Maybe you're right... At least it's aggressive... 
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I love the feel of Hold'em control...
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ilikeaces86
You guys have to seriously re-evaluate the way you play AK post flop in NL...Its not a good hand unless you hit or take it down on the flop....just roll over and die when you get called.
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Hence the purpose of this thread. I feel now that I should have done what you advised, i.e. rolled over and died after he called me on the flop.
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Yes just roll over and die
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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I think, when you get called on the flop, you are done with the hand. This is a scary flop, even for someone who flopped the OESD. The only hand that you could beat that can call on the flop is KJ, and that is a bad call, since the pair makes a full house possible. (I would never chase on this flop) So, after the call, unless you improve, plan on check/fold.
Agression is good, but bluffing into someone who has you beat is stupid.
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