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ecrujet

01-09-2007, 11:12 AM Post subject: Check or bet?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

As there are two players (including the original raiser) to act behind me is it best to check (it was checked to me). As there is 15bb in the pot already he should bet quite a bit to buy the pot or a relatively small bet to trap if he has kk which i would reraise and hope he doesnt have kk. Or is the best play to bet here and take down the pot despite there being so much potential.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($119.45)
Hero ($62.65)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($60.15)
Button ($93.80)
SB ($57.05)
BB ($65.40)
UTG ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

, T

.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.5, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($7.50) K

, T

, 8

(5 players)

Final Pot: $7.50

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Anosmic

01-09-2007, 12:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

This is a good board to check.

The pre-flop raise makes it less likely someone has a draw here.

I'd be happy to check it and hope the CO attacks and get's action from the players between you.

If he c-bets 1/2 pot or more and gets called then you can re-raise and see who you can stack.
If everyone folds to you then I'd just call. No need to send out a check/raise signal on this flop.

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

jameseyb

01-09-2007, 12:39 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

I'd be checking. You've got a lot of people in the pot, not all of which can be holding KK. you've got no flush draws about (as yet, so I'd be hoping that someone's got a K with a good kicker so that I can stack them.

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flotu

01-09-2007, 01:02 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 304

I think there are way to many players in the pot to risk a round check, the PF raiser will hardly bet unless he hit this flop in some way.

Oh, I hate the limp preflop, T's is a strong hand.

philly and the phanatics

01-09-2007, 04:19 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough

Quote:

Originally Posted by flotu

I think there are way to many players in the pot to risk a round check, the PF raiser will hardly bet unless he hit this flop in some way.

Oh, I hate the limp preflop, T's is a strong hand.

with that many people in the pot id definatly assume one of them is going to have a king. And what makes you think he wouldnt c-bet the flop whether he hit it or not. I agree with what the others said about seeing whos willing to play for stacks

ecrujet

01-10-2007, 12:07 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

so what would you do philly check or bet.
It looks like you could be the deciding vote.

DubRod

01-10-2007, 12:59 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2005

Posts: 112

I would go at it with a smallish bet (1/2) and see who stays in the hand, I rarely like giving free cards especially with so many people in the hand and middle position. you know a king will call or 2 pair or what not but at least you build the pot for the turn and dont let an open ended straight draw look for free.

Fnord

01-10-2007, 01:03 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I check. If we bet, we risk the CO isolating us and our hand plays well multi-way. Also, I want to give someone else a chance to take a shot at the CO. It's already a big pot, so I don't think a c/r is too worse than b/r for getting all of the money in. Also, if the CO bets and everyone else folds, just calling intending to play a turn might not be a terrible play.

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DubRod

01-10-2007, 01:30 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2005

Posts: 112

I agree, but I'd hate to see everyone check.

philly and the phanatics

01-10-2007, 04:27 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

eru, id check i think its inevitable that one of them will bet, you leading into people will scream you have something in this huge pot and you knowing theres that many people to act behind you. idk id check and wait until they spew chips into your lap for you to snatch up

ecrujet

01-10-2007, 10:12 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

alright im happy i made an ok move by checking, unfotunately it checked all round and everyone got a free card. The Qh came down and I think the board is getting scary. Small blind bet $4, BB made it $10 and I took it up to $16 I make a smallish raise as i think if anyone has anything and I am already beat they will make there move now. SB is an ultra aggresser and BB is a rock. So the question is :
having made the check play I did should I have pushed or is this test bet ok and if a J or an A comes on the river I am probably out of there if under heavy fire.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($119.45)
Hero ($62.65)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($60.15)
Button ($93.80)
SB ($57.05)
BB ($65.40)
UTG ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

, T

.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.5, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($7.50) K

, T

, 8

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($7.50) Q

(5 players)

Final Pot: $7.50

flotu

01-10-2007, 03:05 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 304

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

And what makes you think he wouldnt c-bet the flop whether he hit it or not.

How often do you, or the usual player, C-bet empty in a multi way pot? It's a pretty big leak if you do.

philly and the phanatics

01-10-2007, 05:06 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

yea i guess if its a huge multiway pot, i hadnt really considered that im giong to take the time to examine that in my game now

bigslikk

01-11-2007, 08:10 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

When you slowplay, you're taking a gamble. The more conservative (safe) move would be to bet out on the flop (no min bet) and either take it down or get called by some1 with a king or AT or some crap that's nearly drawing dead.

=With TTT on the flop, you are kicking the ass of anyone who doesn't have a straight draw--- A pair of Kings needs more than a king to suckout- his KKK would give you KKTTT, still the winner. Pair of tens on flop needs hell to freeze over (runner kings) just to split. The only hands with a decent shot of taking it are- not counting KK- KT / K8 (two pair with a higher pair, since a King can provide over-full) or an open-ended, like J9 or the unlikely 79. Both 2 pair and the oesd have the worst of it by far, however, esp the 2 pair. =

Basically, the bottom line is that a set (not trips, but trips made with pp) is WAY ahead barring straight / flush draws. And even then you have a solid draw to a boat. Sets are this strong, and hidden too, to average microstake donk. Donk's mindset "hmm he bet 1/2 the pot, does he have top pair, mid pair or bottom pair?" or even maybe "does he have ____ draw?" The hands that ppl forget about are pp's- they neglect to think about overpairs or sets.

I these reasons are why many nits profit as "set hunters" at the microstake level.

Anway, in a microstakes multipot with the pfr behind me I think I would check 90% the time. Yes there is the great joy in betting straight out- fastplaying sets- and possibly getting into a highly contested-pot / pissing contest but that is rare. The prf or button, IMO would bet even with a shred of that flop. I would check/ call flop, then raise turn. Yes standard obvious-as-hell "hey look I have a set" move, but it's not so obvious at micro's. Check the flop and let the fools behind you think they're ahead.

ecrujet

01-12-2007, 11:17 AM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 47

Thanks for all your replys,
I am satisfied I played it ok until maybe the end, i now realise that he could have been playing me and was also scared of the turn card completing a straight.
It worked out that he had QQ and made a set that I gave him for free.
When I saw the 8 on the river I was initially pleased untill his ai bet, now the only thing I beat is the straight or a bluff.
Would any of you have folded to this ultra aggressives bet with $39.55 to call and $95 in the pot?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($119.45)
Hero ($62.65)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($60.15)
Button ($93.80)
SB ($57.05)
BB ($65.40)
UTG ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T

, T

.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO raises to $1.5, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($7.50) K

, T

, 8

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($7.50) Q

(5 players)
SB bets $4, BB raises to $10, Hero raises to $16, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls $12, BB calls $6.

River: ($55.50) 8

(3 players)
SB bets $39.55 (All-In), BB folds, Hero calls $39.55.

Final Pot: $134.60

DoMiN_8

01-18-2007, 12:31 AM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 9

I don't really understand why everyone is so quick to advocate checking the flop. I assume you are checking with the intent of raising any bet behind you? Thats a powerful play and will undoubtedly define your hand pretty clearly. I think a better line is bet/3bet. Someone is bound to have hit that flop, and I think that there is a good chance that if you lead like 1/2 pot, someone will come over top. Also, no one will put you on a hand as strong as yours if you lead, as most players are apt to slowplay flopped monsters. IMO, leading is much more deceptive.

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