Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Cash Games - Talk to me

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
DentonSlick
Old 06-30-2006, 02:08 PM     Post subject: Cash Games - Talk to me #1 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
I'm a very reliable SnG and tournament player, but when it comes to ring games I'm an ATM machine. I understand that you need to tighten up your game since the blinds never rise, but even then I still manage to lose money. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice for making the transition between SnG's and ring games. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Hartlin
Old 06-30-2006, 02:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
Hartlin
Post some hand histories so we can try and figure out how/why you're losing money at ring? Just grab a bunch of hands and post them!
Reply With Quote
jackvance
Old 06-30-2006, 02:21 PM #3 (permalink)  
jackvance's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point
 Hm. Come play at my tables
Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
 
Reply With Quote
Sound & Fury
Old 06-30-2006, 03:26 PM #4 (permalink)  

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: portland OR
Posts: 21
Sound & Fury
Send a message via AIM to Sound & Fury
My guess is that you bluff too much and overvalue good hands. Don't bet too much with good hands - bet enough so that weaker good hands will call, giving you value, while still pricing out draws if that's a concern on the given board. Position matters a lot more because you're playing a lot more post-flop.

I made the transition from tourneys to ring a couple months ago and the more I play ring games, the more conservative and straightforward I've started playing. Trying to induce a bluff by slow playing 2 pair or TPTK is a recipe for disaster - just lead out and see what happens. And above all else, ring games are all about implied odds and pot odds. The more you understand these concepts and improve your ability to estimate implied odds, the better off you are. And this includes being mindful of the implied odds you are offering the table, too - If you decide you won't be able to lay down a given good hand, make sure you bet enough to keep the draws unprofitable.
Reply With Quote
Rockymv
Old 06-30-2006, 04:21 PM #5 (permalink)  
Rockymv's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
Rockymv
Send a message via AIM to Rockymv
Former tourney players (like me) tend to go insane with TPTK and top two pair. I'd bet you need to slow way down with these hands.
Reply With Quote
Greedo017
Old 06-30-2006, 05:04 PM #6 (permalink)  
Greedo017's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
Greedo017 is on a distinguished road
 play half the hands you play now and check back in a few days
i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
 
Reply With Quote
KingLizard
Old 06-30-2006, 05:45 PM #7 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 296
KingLizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound & Fury
My guess is that you bluff too much and overvalue good hands. Don't bet too much with good hands - bet enough so that weaker good hands will call, giving you value, while still pricing out draws if that's a concern on the given board. Position matters a lot more because you're playing a lot more post-flop.

I made the transition from tourneys to ring a couple months ago and the more I play ring games, the more conservative and straightforward I've started playing. Trying to induce a bluff by slow playing 2 pair or TPTK is a recipe for disaster - just lead out and see what happens. And above all else, ring games are all about implied odds and pot odds. The more you understand these concepts and improve your ability to estimate implied odds, the better off you are. And this includes being mindful of the implied odds you are offering the table, too - If you decide you won't be able to lay down a given good hand, make sure you bet enough to keep the draws unprofitable.
This advice is right on the money. I have gone from 60K hands at ring to the occassional MTT and STT ... and am always amazed at TPTK taking down a big pot. Especially in an MTT, it seems like everyone (or most everyone) is playing it like a SH game. I try to play my ring game and just have trouble moving up. So, in essesence, I have the opposite problem.
Reply With Quote
dwags222
Old 06-30-2006, 06:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gaylord, MI
Posts: 151
dwags222
Send a message via AIM to dwags222 Send a message via MSN to dwags222
the thing for me when i made the transition was remembering that i dont really need to win the pot, in tourneys it is much more important to win a high percentage of the pots you play in, where as in cash games it is not about winning a high percentage of pots as much as it is important to wing big pots with strong hands and play only small pots w/ hands that may only be second best, such as tp/tk. you may want to brush up on your pot odds and stuff too, if you haven't reviewed all that stuff recently.
Reply With Quote
Miffed22001
Old 06-30-2006, 06:40 PM #9 (permalink)  
Miffed22001's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
Miffed22001 is on a distinguished road
 you dont get value
you dont use implied odds well
you go broke with tpgk

Normal mistakes
Reply With Quote
givememyleg
Old 06-30-2006, 07:14 PM     Post subject: Re: Cash Games - Talk to me #10 (permalink)  
givememyleg's Avatar
WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
givememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentonSlick
I'm a very reliable SnG and tournament player, but when it comes to ring games I'm an ATM machine.
Automatic Teller Machine Machine?

Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.


"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
 
Reply With Quote
EricE
Old 06-30-2006, 07:27 PM     Post subject: Re: Cash Games - Talk to me #11 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
EricE
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentonSlick
I'm a very reliable SnG and tournament player, but when it comes to ring games I'm an ATM machine.
Automatic Teller Machine Machine?
Grammer police?
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
Reply With Quote
Lukie
Old 06-30-2006, 07:28 PM #12 (permalink)  
Lukie's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
Lukie is on a distinguished road
 position and agression, learn em and love em

try not to go broke with any 1 pair hand with full stacks (doesn't always apply, but usually)
Reply With Quote
Warpe
Old 06-30-2006, 07:30 PM     Post subject: Re: Cash Games - Talk to me #13 (permalink)  
Warpe's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
Warpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the roughWarpe is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Quote:
Originally Posted by DentonSlick
I'm a very reliable SnG and tournament player, but when it comes to ring games I'm an ATM machine.
Automatic Teller Machine Machine?
Grammar police?
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 06-30-2006, 07:31 PM     Post subject: Re: Cash Games - Talk to me #14 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Automatic Teller Machine Machine?
GrammAr police?
LOL

{EDIT: damnit warpe beat me}
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
Reply With Quote
givememyleg
Old 06-30-2006, 07:37 PM #15 (permalink)  
givememyleg's Avatar
WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
givememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to beholdgivememyleg is a splendid one to behold
 I WAS GONNA CORRECT THAT TOO

Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.


"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
 
Reply With Quote
Miffed22001
Old 06-30-2006, 08:16 PM #16 (permalink)  
Miffed22001's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
Miffed22001 is on a distinguished road
 look at all you english majors go :P
Reply With Quote
The Izebox
Old 06-30-2006, 08:20 PM #17 (permalink)  
The Izebox's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: bronx new york
Posts: 255
The Izebox
Send a message via AIM to The Izebox
Here is some good advice (I play nl 200/nl400 at FT)

1. Position is more important then anything, I would say even then your cards. But what does this mean? It means that each position has different hands that you can play. A hand that is a raise everytime on the button you might not even be able to call a raise with out of the small blind.

A. Small blind/Big Blind- CALL any pocket pair (as long as the raiser has at least 10x his raise in his stack) CALL good high cards (jq suited and better, but youll have to be tighter in your selection the more people there in the pot). For example i wouldnt call a raise with kj if there was a raise and a call, but i would call against a prolific blind stealer) CALL all suited connectors better than 23 in multiway pots and play for a strong flop)

-RAISE 1010 and better aq suited and better. Again I wouldnt raise with 1010 if there was a raise and two callers, i would probably just call and play for a set.

B. Under the Gun- Play tight/aggressive
-I limp/call any pocket pair and play for a set, also limp call 9/10 suited and j/10 suited (just to mix it up)

-Other then the above I raise or fold anything I play, depending on the table dynamics that could be anywhere from 77 to 99 and better, a9suited to aj suited and better

-at a decent table fold ajo and worse kqo and worse. I play very tight from UTG , at lower limits I feel that works best for me.

C. 2 from button

-Same as above but id widen my raising range to include qjsuited+, a8 suited+, and 77+.

-Id also try to sneak in woth a lot more drawing hands ,78+, j9suited +

D. 1 from button
-In an unraised pot id open with anything here, A2suited+, a5o +, k9suited+, q9+, any PP, any suited connector 56+. Id try to limp with any suited cards with str8 possibilities

E. Button
-My money maker, Id raise the blinds with any two cards, and raise the pot with any decent two cards. Again the more limpers there are the more selective you need to be. Because you NEED to raise the pot preflop if there are several callers the pot will be huge and it will be difficult to outplay multiple players on the flop. So you might not want to be making 25$ raises preflop with ace two. Feel free to limp with drawing hands in family pots.

Continuation bets:
I continuation bet 2/3 to 3/4 pot no matter if i hit or missed, but i only do this if it is heads up. Take the free card if there are multiple callers and be prepared to lay it down. I also wouldnt Cbet into a calling station out of position or if I had zero outs.
NOTE: on a ragged flop (ex you have a8 and the flop comes 224 rainbow) you may want to bet closer to the full amount of the pot to make it seem as you have a small overpair that you are trying to defend)

This position dependent srategy will have the benefit if giving you a maniacal image although you are playing relatively few pots. Try it out and see how fast people play back at you with mid pair.

KEEP IN MIND
Because you are always raising when entering the pot people will assume that you are always playing trash. Identify the players who are tight and play back at you with premium hands, and identify the ones who will play back at you hard with weak top pair. You should be checking hand histories and takeing notes and betting patterns and playing styles. So long as youre playing less then 4 tables this is relatively easy to find time for. Adjust your calling/reraising ranges accordingly to postflop checkraises and lead ins.

ALSO: Very important, DONT buy in short, you need to have a big stack in front of you, if you get short even by one big blind you need to reload. Get in the mindset that you want to play for BIG pots, and you will be. You need to have the max amount of chips in front of you so that you can TAKE the max amount of chips from your opponents.
Last thing, expect some variance, you need to have a decent roll of close to 20 buy ins at least

Oh yeah, something I still have trouble dealing with...Dont bluff. That read you got on weak mid pair? Theyll call you anyway, just limit your bluffs to C bets and small, unraised pots.
Me? I always tell the truth.

Even when I lie.
 
Reply With Quote
silu73
Old 07-03-2006, 12:44 AM #18 (permalink)  
silu73's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
silu73
You are in the same boat as I was (or still is). I am a successful SNG and MTT player but was bleeding cash at ring games. However, a few things have helped to straighten things out and now I'm making good money on the 25NL and will move up to 50NL soon.

The most important thing I have changes was that I got a good software package. I use PT & PAHUD in ring games and I can't believe why I was "flying blind" at cash games before.

Also learn to control your aggression when it comes to Button and Blind play. I noticed that I was just way to aggro in cash games in those positions.
Reply With Quote
Werddown
Old 07-03-2006, 05:08 AM #19 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 302
Werddown
My first guess is you aren't being aggressive enough post flop, or too aggressive preflop.

My second guess is you're overvaluing top pair. There's alot of nut campers in ring, and top pair is not as strong of a hand when people aren't being forced to play because of the blinds.

The switch from SnGs to ring was a little tough for me at first, because of all the post flop play (tournaments dont have nearly as much post flop play), but once I got the hang of it, I realized how much more it fit my style.

You'll have lower blood pressure playing ring too No spending 4 hours building your stack in a tournament only to bust 1 position from the money.
Reply With Quote
Galapogos
Old 07-03-2006, 05:16 AM #20 (permalink)  
Galapogos's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
Galapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really niceGalapogos is just really nice
 Also remember in cash games you can be up against anything. Guys are able to shake things up and throw in some pretty weird hands once in a while. One of my problems making the transition was this. Like it has been said numerous times, you're probably going all in with TPTK when some guy hit two pair with 57s.

In SnGs, where I would go after a guy's stack like a dog after a treat, with semi-decent hands in ring you need to learn pot control so the guy's betting will tell you something. Otherwise a set will stack you everytime.

Hopefully this makes sense!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
 
Reply With Quote
Awaji E
Old 07-06-2006, 01:00 AM #21 (permalink)  

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Japan
Posts: 61
Awaji E
If you're playing a 10 person Sit N Go, after 1 hour, it's likely that 9-out-of-10 players have lost their ENTIRE stack, with one person holding all the chips.

At a full ring, that NEVER happens. Think about what that says about how people are playing.

If I double-up from a full stack in a tourny, I'm thinking, "Well, that helps a bit." If I double-up at ring game, I'm THRILLED.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.