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spino1i
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06-05-2005, 12:25 AM
Post subject: Be careful what you call a drawless flop..
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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I have recently made the mistake of not betting enough at seemingly drawless flops that in fact have very nasty hidden draws.
For instance, KT5 rainbow looks harmless but actually harbors several draws. QJ is an open-ended, the most fearsome of the bunch, and two gutshots exist: AQ and J9.
Some flops only have gutshots available, which allow you to bet less. These normally involve an ace or cards seperated by a minimum of 4 or more, examples: AJ4, K93, and AT5 rainbow.
An even tricker one involves only two flops in the game: AQ8 and A37. These flops look to only have gutshots possible, due to the ace being on the board. However, the "double belly-buster" rears its ugly head in the form of JT on the AQ8 board (with outs of K and 9) and 45 on the A37 board (with outs of 2 and 6), giving them the same number of outs as an open-ended straight draw.
There are only 4 truely drawless flops in the game: K82, K72, K83, and Q72 rainbow. These are the flops you can minbet at with your top pair.
So rainbow doesnt always spell happiness in Texas Hold 'em..
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ekillian
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06-05-2005, 07:40 AM
Post subject: Re: Be careful what you call a drawless flop..
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#2 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 235
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spino1i
There are only 4 truely drawless flops in the game: K82, K72, K83, and Q72 rainbow. These are the flops you can minbet at with your top pair.
So rainbow doesnt always spell happiness in Texas Hold 'em..
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Yeah... let's min bet top pair. No straight or flush draw means we aren't vulnerable!  So... This info is useful how? Duh most flops have some sort of draw. Min betting top pair... Only rarely would I do that. If ever. We're talking... rare. It won't be based on the flop, I'll tell you that right now. It'd be based on the game/players. I don't know that I'd ever do it except maaaaybe at a short handed cash table where I've been taking a lot of pots without shows...
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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clearly this info is useful if for nothing more than pure statistical certainties. just cause it isnt directly applicable doesnt mean you cant use it to your advantage in making a decision.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I don't look for excuses to min bet top pair. Furthermore, when someone min bets a drawless board at me it throws up red flags of a made set. It will make me fold TP worse kicker instantly.
Good info. It was entertaining. Truth is I don't even think about draws that often unless I'm drawing. That's because I don't look for opportunity to slowplay. I slowplay when my draw has already panned out occasionally, but mostly I rip down the pot as quick as possible.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Still if you are trying to figure out on the turn what hand your opponent had to justify calling your flop bet with this information is useful. However top pair is not a hand that you can ever slow play or min bet (unless you are playing really high stakes where you might have to be more creative to get action or maybe HU). Even if the flop is K 7 2 min betting with AK is just plain stupid, someone with a PP or middle\bottom pair might just be taking that extra card for such a small price and hoping to hit his set or two pair because of implied odds.
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BreakfastMan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 121
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I sure their is some reason, but you didn't included the flops with an Ace in them where no draw is possible. These are A72, A83, A82, A94, A93 and A92.
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Thanks,
BreakfastMan
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Breakfast man any flop with an Ace and a 2\3\4\5 has a draw to the A2345 straight.
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BreakfastMan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 121
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Thanks, I typed out that post and figured it out while I was typing. Didn't think I pressed the submit button on that one! 
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Thanks,
BreakfastMan
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