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Can you guys explain some things about equity?

  
 
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housefish17
Old 04-21-2007, 04:25 AM     Post subject: Can you guys explain some things about equity? #1 (permalink)  

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Hey, I'm new to poker, maybe 10-20k hands, and overall have lost money. I started learning from scratch. Played at a friends house for the first time a couple months ago and was so interested by the game I went online. After losing my fairshare of buyins, I bought/read some books, joined several online forums, and now playing microstakes can consistently win.

One thing that confuses me though is equity.

How do you define equity as it is used in poker?

How do you calculate equity (figure what you equity is in a pot)?

How do you incorporate equity in to your EV?

Thanks a bunch
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housefish17
Old 04-21-2007, 04:36 AM #2 (permalink)  

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Oh and to specify, I play Microstakes 5NL NLHE on PS

I figured I would do it the right way, proper bankroll management, 50$ buyin and grind it up to 200$ before switching to 10NL, maybe as early as 150$.
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swiggidy
Old 04-21-2007, 06:34 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 equity is how often you win the pot with a specific hand (i.e. the percentage of the pot that is "yours"). Pokerstove is a free program you can use.

two examples:
Board: 6c 7c A

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.737% 43.74% 00.00% 433 0.00 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 56.263% 56.26% 00.00% 557 0.00 { 9c8c }

you flop OESFD vs TPTK, you are actually a favorite to win, you can safely call any bet (or ideally raise)

Board: 6c 7c Ad

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.640% 66.52% 00.12% 48074 86.50 { 66+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 33.360% 33.24% 00.12% 24023 86.50 { 9c8d }

OESD vs a range, you could call most bets if you think you have implied odds if you hit.

I feel this is a shitty post, cuz i've been drinking...

moral of the story: download pokerstove
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GatorJH
Old 04-21-2007, 07:04 AM #4 (permalink)  
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A drunk post by Swigg - how cute.

actually drunk boy did a pretty good job of explaining it.

Equity is your "rightful" share of the pot.

In his example above lets say the blinds are .10/.20 villian (with AK) raised to .60, you called from the button, and both blinds folded. There is now $1.50 in the pot.

Based on the pokerstove calculations above you will win this hand 66% of the time so your equity in the pot is 66% of $1.50 or $1.00.

Hope that helps.
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GatorJH
Old 04-21-2007, 07:04 AM #5 (permalink)  
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A drunk post by Swigg - how cute.

actually drunk boy did a pretty good job of explaining it.

Equity is your "rightful" share of the pot.

In his example above lets say the blinds are .10/.20 villian (with AK) raised to .60, you called from the button, and both blinds folded. There is now $1.50 in the pot.

Based on the pokerstove calculations above you will win this hand 66% of the time so your equity in the pot is 66% of $1.50 or $1.00.

Hope that helps.
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Pelion
Old 04-21-2007, 09:32 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Well technically equity is the actual money amount you are "due" from the pot.

so in swigs example if you are both allin for a total of $100


two examples:
Board: 6c 7c A

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 43.737% 43.74% 00.00% 433 0.00 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 56.263% 56.26% 00.00% 557 0.00 { 9c8c }

AK has $43.737 equity while 98 has $56.26 equity.

Youll probably make the right choices with either definition though.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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XTR1000
Old 04-21-2007, 10:19 AM #7 (permalink)  
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how do u enter hand ranges into pokerstove? i cant put in more than a single hand
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housefish17
Old 04-21-2007, 10:57 AM #8 (permalink)  

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Alright let me see if I get this straight.

Lets just say with any given hand, against a range of villain hands, I am a 55% favorite to win after the flop

If there is 40$ in the pot, I am due 22$ of that if we both pushed all in?

Does equity only apply when you go all in?

Also, does that mean equity is essentially the same principle as pot/implied odds?

if you have 18% chance of hitting your nut flush with one cards to come, that means that any bet less than 18% of the pot on the flop is going to be +EV?

Lets just say the pot is 100BB and you have to call 20BB to see the river for ease of math and if you don't hit your hand on the river, you check/fold
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Pelion
Old 04-21-2007, 11:36 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housefish17
Alright let me see if I get this straight.

Lets just say with any given hand, against a range of villain hands, I am a 55% favorite to win after the flop

If there is 40$ in the pot, I am due 22$ of that if we both pushed all in?

You are due $22 if it is checked down. Obviously if you go allin then you will be due a percentage of that bet aswell so you will be due more from the total pot, but it might be that you are now due less than the total amount you have put in which is bad.

Does equity only apply when you go all in?

Im not sure I understand this question. Equity always applies

Also, does that mean equity is essentially the same principle as pot/implied odds?

It relates to pot odds yes. Not really implied odds though.

if you have 18% chance of hitting your nut flush with one cards to come, that means that any bet less than 18% of the pot on the flop is going to be +EV?

yup

Lets just say the pot is 100BB and you have to call 20BB to see the river for ease of math and if you don't hit your hand on the river, you check/fold

Yea thats just about break even with a flush draw. Then you consider your implied odds and its an easy call.
Even though equity really has units of money, you will most commonly hear it talked about as a percentage since percentages are easy to remember for common situations while dollar amounts are different in most situations.

You will commonly see people saying things like

He makes a $50 bet. If I push in over the top for $150 I expect him to fold 35% of the time and call the other 65% , but when he calls I have 30% equity. And then from this they work out if a push is good or not.
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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housefish17
Old 04-21-2007, 11:54 AM #10 (permalink)  

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So from that, lets say he bets 50$ to make the pot 150$ or so, and you push all in for 150$

35% of the time you can win the pot with a fold

if he does call however, you have a 30% chance to win (given a range of hands)

so (.35*150$)+(.30*400$)-(.35*150$)=a positive number which would mean a good push because you will make your money a fair share of the time?

I have question, like I used 400$ for if he calls the allin, do I use that number, or only the amount of money in the pot that he put in there?

Also, if my math is wrong, which I'm sure it is, please correct me, I'm really trying to learn the theory of poker
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swiggidy
Old 04-21-2007, 03:08 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XTR1000
how do u enter hand ranges into pokerstove? i cant put in more than a single hand
you can type it out:
ak,kk,qq,jj

Or click on the "player #" button -> click the "preflop" tab
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Pelion
Old 04-21-2007, 04:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housefish17
So from that, lets say he bets 50$ to make the pot 150$ or so, and you push all in for 150$

35% of the time you can win the pot with a fold

if he does call however, you have a 30% chance to win (given a range of hands)
Id do it like this

35% of the time you pick up $150 : EV =0.35*150 +$52.50

65% of the time he calls.

30% of that 65% of the time you pick up the $150 pot + his extra $100 call (because he already bet $50 so he only has $100 left)

EV = 0.3*0.65*(150+100) = +$48.75

70% of the 65% of the time you lose $150

EV = 0.7*0.65*150 = -$68.25

Total EV is $52.50+$48.75-68.25 = +$33 so a push is very good
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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XTR1000
Old 04-21-2007, 10:17 PM #13 (permalink)  
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ty swiggs
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Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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Chopper
Old 04-23-2007, 03:27 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housefish17
Oh and to specify, I play Microstakes 5NL NLHE on PS

I figured I would do it the right way, proper bankroll management, 50$ buyin and grind it up to 200$ before switching to 10NL, maybe as early as 150$.
if you can grow it to $100, you can make it at 10 NL with 10 buy-ins, imo. as long as you are not a LAGgy player.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 04-23-2007, 03:30 AM #15 (permalink)  
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a drunk post from swiggs, and a double post from GATOR. what a way to start a thread...lol.

so, in my own way, here comes the triple.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 04-23-2007, 03:44 AM #16 (permalink)  
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you want my honest response?..

equity means shit. well, not exactly. but it only helps you make a decision that is not an auto-call or an auto-fold (i know i left out auto-SHOVE).

you can never, imo, know your "equity" because you dont know your opponents hand. you can only put him on a "range." if thats the case, you show me someone that can calculate equity of their holding against a "range" of hand possibilities, and i will show you an idiot savant.

you can, however, have a "range" of your expected equity. meaning you will know if you "may" have and edge or may not. and that will help you make your decision.

i guess what i am saying is that "equity" is not a worthless number. it is just a number i dont believe you can know, in the midst of a hand, with enough certainty to calculate it. at best, its a guess. just like your "read" of your opponent's hand. maybe not a blind guess, but still a guess.

at the 5, 10, 25, and all the way up through the 100 level, i doubt it's important to know in NL.

now in limit, i feel its a much more important concept. if you have AA against one player, you jam the pot until you feel you are beat. the reason is the way i feel equity is defined. if you have an 88% equity stake in the pot, you need to keep jamming the pot with money because each additional dollar you put in the middle, and each that goes in with yours, you can expect $.88 to come back to you, in the long run. i like putting in a dollar, and getting called, to receive $.88 of each dollar going in.

meaning, if you put in your $1 and get called 3 times, that means your cost was $1, but you "theoretically" made ($.88 X 4) $3.52. as a wise man once said, "i like them odds."

but again, this concept shouldnt take the place of a read or your instincts. just because you have AA, does NOT mean you should go to showdown everytime because you "have a lot of equity" in the pot.

hope that helped a little, too. doubt the mathemeticians (and spellers) will like that one much.

well, that's my 2% equity in this thread.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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