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mucknut
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04-30-2007, 09:11 PM
Post subject: Can a player cash in some chips at a cash game and continue?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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Can a player in a cash game cash-in some chips and continue playing at the same table with less chips at stake?
I've understood that a player is not allowed to protect chips in that way. I'm asking because I was playing a low stakes no limit holdem cash game after a home tourney and one of my buddies cashed in some of his chips and kept on playing. I asked him to keep the bills on the table because I felt I had a right to have a chance to win them back. I want to know who was wrong before it comes up again between us.
Mucknut.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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You were right.
What he did was extremely unethical and is also known as "going south" or "ratholing".
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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No home game should allow that. It's certainly not allowed in casinos. You must either leave the game entirely or not take any money out of play.
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martypalin
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 64
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Unfortunately Mansion poker and software allows exactly that which is incredibly infuriating if you are chasing. But as said VERY wrong ethically but online nothing can really be done
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click your mouse, lose your house
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mucknut
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04-30-2007, 09:50 PM
Post subject: Thanks
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#5 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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Thanks Ash.
I felt out of line asking him to get his money back on the table (because it was late and did not matter anymore) but now at least I know I didn't embarrass myself by being wrong.
Is there anywhere on the internet I could refer him to read about this "rule" or common practice? I would like to be able to avoid a detailed conversation about it with him and just let him know where to check it out if he wants to see it for himself.
Thanks again, Mucknut.
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Xianti
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04-30-2007, 10:11 PM
Post subject: Re: Thanks
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#6 (permalink)
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mucknut
Is there anywhere on the internet I could refer him to read about this "rule" or common practice?
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Copy-and-paste:
http://www.smokepoker.com/how-to-play/rules-and-basics/poker-etiquette.php
#5
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
You were right.
What he did was extremely unethical and is also known as "going south" or "ratholing".
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ilolololololololololololololoolool
'unethical'
*shakes head*
Ratholing is where you leave the table completly and hen buy in again for a smaller amount, if its allowed.
Party may still allow you to buy in for $50 at $200nl double up and then leave and then sit back down with $50 again.
Most sites dont allow it anymore, or have a minimum time limit before you can sit at the same table again, but its not unethical, and actually has its own merits as a strategy and for other reasons.
I did it the first time i played and moved up to 400nl.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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occasionally games allow it IF all players agree but youre right that its generally not allowed and is seen as unethical.
Its certainly not allowed in my homegame without the agreement of all players at the table.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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mucknut
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04-30-2007, 10:45 PM
Post subject: ethics or rules?
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#9 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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... so it's not a rule it's perhaps an "unwritten rule" then? ... or something one must put in the house rules if you want it to stick ... or what?
Where is the Poker judge when you need him?
Mucknut.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
You were right.
What he did was extremely unethical and is also known as "going south".
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ilolololololololololololololoolool
'unethical'
*shakes head*
Ratholing is where you leave the table completly and hen buy in again for a smaller amount, if its allowed.
Party may still allow you to buy in for $50 at $200nl double up and then leave and then sit back down with $50 again.
Most sites dont allow it anymore, or have a minimum time limit before you can sit at the same table again, but its not unethical, and actually has its own merits as a strategy and for other reasons.
I did it the first time i played and moved up to 400nl. |
FMP
I thought that was standard online shortstack strategy, not ratholing! :P
Although some websites still state that ratholing is taking money off the table, e.g. answers, wiki
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Pelion
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04-30-2007, 11:21 PM
Post subject: Re: ethics or rules?
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#11 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mucknut
... so it's not a rule it's perhaps an "unwritten rule" then? ... or something one must put in the house rules if you want it to stick ... or what?
Where is the Poker judge when you need him?
Mucknut.
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As far as I know there is no set rulebook for poker cashgames. Its certainly a rule you will find in any casino.
There is an accepted rulebook for poker tournaments and Id be very suprised if it wasnt in there.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Party may still allow you to buy in for $50 at $200nl double up and then leave and then sit back down with $50 again.
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They still allow it, pisses me off. I email support and bitch about it every so often.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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mucknut
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05-01-2007, 07:00 AM
Post subject: Re: ethics or rules?
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#13 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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[quote="Pelion"]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mucknut
As far as I know there is no set rulebook for poker cashgames. Its certainly a rule you will find in any casino.
There is an accepted rulebook for poker tournaments and Id be very suprised if it wasnt in there.
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I will have to read through "Roberts Rules of Poker" again more thoroughly and check what he says. Thanks for the tip Pelion.
Mucknut.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I was thinking more along the lines of the "Tournament Directors Association" which most of the big vegas casino tournament directors are a part of. Theres alot of rules though and I cant be bothered to go through them all 
[I think alot of them are from the same place though.
http://www.thepokerforum.com/pokerrules.htm
You can probably find it there somewhere
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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In fact here it is
http://www.thepokerforum.com/housepolicies.htm
Quote:
5. All games are table stakes (except �playing behind� as given in the next rule). All chips and money must be kept in plain view. Chips may be removed for security purposes when leaving the table, but must be fully restored upon return. If you return to the same game within one hour of cashing out, your buy-in must be equal to the amount removed when leaving that game.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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baron_greenback
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 118
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I remember watching an episode of high stakes poker, where Daniel Nygreanu accussed someone of going south. It resulted in a huge argument, and much offense being caused.
You were right at your home game, but online I think it's totally different. There's no ethics in online poker.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Party may still allow you to buy in for $50 at $200nl double up and then leave and then sit back down with $50 again.
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They still allow it, pisses me off. I email support and bitch about it every so often. |
god id love to do it to you :P 
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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Chopper
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05-01-2007, 08:23 PM
Post subject: Re: Thanks
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#19 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mucknut
...Is there anywhere on the internet I could refer him to read about this "rule" or common practice? I would like to be able to avoid a detailed conversation about it with him and just let him know where to check it out if he wants to see it for himself.
Thanks again, Mucknut.
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yup, FTR!! specifically, this thread. 
ps, cant believe some of you missed this opportunity at self-promotion. 
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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mucknut
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
In fact here it is
http://www.thepokerforum.com/housepolicies.htm
Quote:
5. All games are table stakes (except �playing behind� as given in the next rule). All chips and money must be kept in plain view. Chips may be removed for security purposes when leaving the table, but must be fully restored upon return. If you return to the same game within one hour of cashing out, your buy-in must be equal to the amount removed when leaving that game.
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Thanks again Pelion for digging up the info for me (+ readers).
And thanks to everyone else who has made a comment. Now I have a better understanding of how "going south" is viewed in different contexts from online to casino play to a home game, and feel I can hold my own if the situation ever comes up with me again.
I understand a short stack can have it's advantages in a game of No-limit and if you combine that with the ability to "go-south" you could easily siphon a lot more chips than you are risking over a longer period of time. If it were allowed as a common practice "players" would be doing this trick all the time. Personally I won't choose to play on a site that allows it. I also feel quite certain that I'm not going to run into the problem again unless it's a bunch of guys (like us) testing the waters with our amateur home games.
Mucknut
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GatorJH
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: HotLanta
Posts: 3,179
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What's interesting is that I have been in many a home game where someone buys in from someone else at the table and the person who collected the money puts it in their pocket.
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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mucknut
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by GatorJH
What's interesting is that I have been in many a home game where someone buys in from someone else at the table and the person who collected the money puts it in their pocket.
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That would be a good way to rathole if you agree with your pal beforehand that if your winning and he's losing you want him to buy some of your chips off the table. Not that I agree with it but I get how it would work.
Mucknut.
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