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strawman
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11-16-2005, 08:04 PM
Post subject: Calling when behind to leave an impression or...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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I'm playing in my regular 50NL game which is very loose. I'm UTG with 10s 7s and limp in. Button raises 5xBB. Since I had won the last two pots I decided to keep my rush going and called and was followed by two more callers. The flop came 2s 6s 10c. The SB/BB check to me and I bet $10 into a $14 pot. Two fold and the button matches my bet and raises AI $50.
I had just semi-bluffed the button on the hand before and have taken his chips in every hand we have played against each other. The game was winding down so I found myself debating whether or not to keep the money and fold or take a decent opportunity to get all his chips. In the end I decided that I knew I was behind in the hand to his overpair by the way he played but had outs to the 10, 7 and the flush draw and decided it was important that since I play with this person regularly I want to leave him with the impression that I will look him up if he comes over the top of me again.
I'm curious what others think about when in a situation like this. How many chips is a lasting impression worth? In the end I decided it was worth paying him off now for better future prospects than folding and having a good session now.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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if you usually play tight and want to get more action with your good hands and you have the money to to use then i dont think its a bad play expecially cause you leave yourself with outs.
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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50$ to call into a 84$ pot (am i reading it right? 14 go in on the flop, 10 from your bet, 10 from his call, and another 50 from his raise = 84$) is about 1.7:1 on this call.
If you think all of your outs are good you have 9 spades, 3 7's, and 2 T's = 14 outs. In a cash game this is a call just based on the math. Even with just your flush outs you're getting close to the right odds.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Call.
Board: Tc 6s 2s
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 50.7071 % 50.71% 00.00% { Ts7s }
Hand 2: 49.2929 % 49.29% 00.00% { AdAh }
equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 29.0909 % 29.09% 00.00% { Ts7s }
Hand 2: 70.9091 % 70.91% 00.00% { TdTh }
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Think long term; if you're confident that he has an overpair, then you are a favorite right now. If this situation plays out over an infinite amount of hands, you will win more than your opponent. Therefore, go all in and make him play for his stack if he wants to.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Folding T7s UTG preflop would be the wisest move...
as played, call. Pot odds are too good and you have tons of outs.
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lamaros
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 346
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Folding T7s UTG preflop would be the wisest move...
as played, call. Pot odds are too good and you have tons of outs.
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Why do people always have to chime in with tight pf advice? I'm sure we're all aware of this by now.
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strawman
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Folding T7s UTG preflop would be the wisest move...
as played, call. Pot odds are too good and you have tons of outs.
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Generally I do fold T7s, but like I mentioned I had won two previous pots and tried to keep the rush going and was rewarded with a decent flop. The more I look at the situation I realize that calling is simply correct regardless of my wanting to leave an impression with this opponent that he needs to be careful going over the top of me.
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BankItDrew
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11-17-2005, 04:38 PM
Post subject: Re: Calling when behind to leave an impression or...
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by strawman
Since I had won the last two pots I decided to keep my rush going I had just semi-bluffed the button on the hand before and have taken his chips in every hand we have played against each other.
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Here is your first mistake: Allowing past momentum swings to dictate your current play. Poker is a game of consistancy, don't let your highs and lows determine your play.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by strawman
I want to leave him with the impression that I will look him up if he comes over the top of me again. How many chips is a lasting impression worth? In the end I decided it was worth paying him off now for better future prospects than folding and having a good session now.
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Same thing here. Loosing hand #380924908 so that you can win hand #472947382 is a loosing cause and has no influence. Every hand is a new one.
Good call btw.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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hey BankItPayette do u know where you found that pic? Its a good one of her
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strawman
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11-17-2005, 06:15 PM
Post subject: Re: Calling when behind to leave an impression or...
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#11 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Here is your first mistake: Allowing past momentum swings to dictate your current play. Poker is a game of consistancy, don't let your highs and lows determine your play.
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I would agree with this when having a negative session but I don't look at this as a mistake after taking a couple of pots and having a good session. Is this -EV? Sure and I understand that but I was willing to hedge here. I had a good read on my opponent and was willing to take a calculated risk for a few chips to see a flop that might take all his chips.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Same thing here. Loosing hand #380924908 so that you can win hand #472947382 is a loosing cause and has no influence. Every hand is a new one.
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Again, I see this in two ways. If you are refering to the internet I would agree, but when I'm sitting next to this person I disagree since he will keep me in mind when he is sitting to my right betting into me or raising me next week, whereas an internet player may not. Everyhand is a new one but not everyone you play against is new to you. The two cards I'm dealt are simply the opening salvo and when you've got your opponent leary it's easier to make the 72o look like Aces to them.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by STIdrivr
hey BankItPayette do u know where you found that pic? Its a good one of her
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Page 27 google "alba"
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lamaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Folding T7s UTG preflop would be the wisest move...
as played, call. Pot odds are too good and you have tons of outs.
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Why do people always have to chime in with tight pf advice? I'm sure we're all aware of this by now. |
I understand there are different styles to preflop play, but I can't really see a time when limping T7s UTG is a good play. I got the impression this was at a full, or near full table, although that information was not given. The mistake is further compounded when he called a 5xBB raise with 2 active players still behind him. You have to dig deeper in to the hand to find out that both blinds called as well. The reality of the situation is that streets flow into one another, and making a correct preflop decision may keep you out of tougher situations post-flop.
What makes you so sure that everyone is aware of this by now? I have never seen or talked to the original poster. He could legitimitely be thinking he made a standard preflop play, or he could know that it isn't the greatest move, but wants to mix things up for table image purposes (another discussion in itself). When I look at a hand history, I take the information given to me.. not enough in this case.. and make recommendations based on what I see. This includes preflop action. It's hard to dispute that I clearly gave the correct advice.
I'm in no way a rock or even a super tight player, but sometimes the best decision you can make is just not to play a hand.
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lamaros
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11-17-2005, 10:56 PM
Post subject: Re: Calling when behind to leave an impression or...
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#14 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 346
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Here is your first mistake: Allowing past momentum swings to dictate your current play. Poker is a game of consistancy, don't let your highs and lows determine your play.
Same thing here. Loosing hand #380924908 so that you can win hand #472947382 is a loosing cause and has no influence. Every hand is a new one.
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Sorry, But I disagree with both of these.
Noting the momentum of the table and other players can help you maxamise your returns. Of course this is in regard to table dynamics and not personal dynamics.
Secondly, a good LAgg player makes most of his money through good advertising. Showing down band hands to leave an impression is how you get paid off.
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