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Calling weak river bets when likely behind for information

  
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 03-05-2009, 04:25 AM     Post subject: Calling weak river bets when likely behind for information #1 (permalink)  
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Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 Player seems weak-tight thus far and I've been beating on him a bit in the blinds.

Does anyone ever just call these bets considering they're so grossly weak and small. I mean, it's a pretty cheap price to find out what he's taking this line with and since he's sitting to my left I'd like to get to know him better. Who cares if he has a pair, I'll know exactly what hands he won't reraise me on early streets.

Basically I'm asking who thinks it's worth calling for information or to pick off a (very unlikely and poorly played) bluff.

My reason for 2-barrelling was I wanted him to fold out any mid-pair type hands in fear of the queen. He was like 14/3 so far so I felt he's meek enough to do it.

So to sum it up, I know I'm beat but getting such gross pot odds he may do this with nothing at least some of the time, so by paying for this information now I'll be able to detect what his bets in later hands mean.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($10)
Hero (SB) ($15.85)
BB ($10.70)
UTG ($14.95)
UTG+1 ($22.25)
MP1 ($4.45)
MP2 ($1.85)
CO ($13.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J
6 folds, Hero bets $0.40, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.80) 2, Q, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.80) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.30, BB calls $1.30

River: ($4.40) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Total pot: $6.40 | Rake: $0.30
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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IhaveTopTop
Old 03-05-2009, 05:00 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I've called small river bets for information a couple times. Like you mentioned there are times in this hand where you catch him bluffing and Ace Jack is good, so that gives you a kind of rebate on the cost of the information.
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Micro2Macro
Old 03-05-2009, 05:06 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 Yeah I figured if a player like this bluffs he's going to try and do it as cheaply as possible. I've seen weak-tight players lay 5:1 with garbage here and then wonder why they can't get any folds.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

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"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

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S1x
Old 03-05-2009, 05:34 AM #4 (permalink)  
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It's usually worth just seeing what they have and nothing it for later, along with the outside possibility that ace high beats the total bluff. The line for me is usually a quarter of the pot or less, unless I've got absolutely nothing. And even then I may still call if it's less than around a tenth of the pot.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:10 AM #5 (permalink)  
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no because that's one dollar you'll never see
I'm only calling it if I have reason to believe I'll be good at least SOME of the time
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vclortho
Old 03-05-2009, 07:53 AM #6 (permalink)  

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Have to agree with iopq here. Calling with something is better than calling with NOTHING, even if it is just for info.
They called it poker because the word FU<K! was taken...
 
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JKDS
Old 03-05-2009, 03:46 PM #7 (permalink)  
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JKDS is on a distinguished road
 why bother? get the information from other people that call for info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
 
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Taicho
Old 03-05-2009, 04:39 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If you think he'll be sticking around for a while, it may pay off down the road to see what he's got. I think the last time I felt I was paying someone off to find out what they were holding they packed up and left after that hand >.<
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xpaand
Old 03-05-2009, 06:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I don't think it's worth it for the same reason iopq and JDKS. And at those stakes, people come and go so often that I can't justify paying for information.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 03-05-2009, 07:30 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 now that I look at it he always has something on the river because he isn't the type of player to float 2 streets.

xpaand: Stars 10nl has quite a few 'regs' believe it or not. Not that they're good or anything, but I see the same players all the time (except for the biggest fish).
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Kijjo
Old 03-05-2009, 08:09 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
why bother? get the information from other people that call for info.
this sounds like a good plan
Donk Skills:
#1 The bluff call
#2 The Drawing-Dead Value Bet
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lockpull
Old 03-05-2009, 08:25 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I would just fold here. You now know he will put in a bet on the river if checked to him after bet bet check, which is enough information for now. As earlier post said just let other people call him down to get that info.


Decision making - When decisions are not based on information, it's called gambling
 
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